Baiju M wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 11:53 PM, Baiju M<>  wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>          I am proposing to call "Zope 3 - the web frame work"
>> as "BlueBream".
> I am unable to make a conclusion out of this discussion as many
> real users of "Zope 3 - the web frame work" is not given +1
> But there are so many +1 from other framework users like
> Grok,Zope 2,BFG etc.

This may reflect the number of "pure Zope 3" users still active in the 
community, although I'm speculating.

What I would say, is that we shouldn't discount the votes from people 
predominantly associated with Zope 2 or Grok. Those people still have a 
stake in Zope, and are still hurt by the "Zope 3 is not a successor to 
Zope 2" problem and the "Grok doesn't run on Zope 3, it runs on ZTK 
(soon)" problem causing confusion for its users.

I think we've known for years that Zope 3 has been difficult to market 
and identify. For the first time in years, we have an opportunity to 
have a much clearer story to the outside world. "Zope 2" is the thing 
people have used for a decade and love to love or love to hate. There is 
a package of useful web development tools known as the Zope Toolkit, or 
ZTK for short. Blue Bream (which will inevitably be shortened to just 
"Bream" but I think keeping the longer name is worthwhile) is a 
full-stack framework also built on the ZTK. Grok is another full-stack 
framework built on the ZTK, with a different emphasis on convention over 
configuration. You could diagram the relationship between these things 
relatively easily.

I know we've had one -1 vote on the concept of renaming, and one -1 vote 
on the name itself. I'd like to hear from Jim, the Launchpad crew, and 
certainly give people some time. But as it stands, even "pure Zope 3" 
people are in favour, with you and Stephan +1.

I think what could happen is this:

  - You keep experimenting with a "quickstart" setup using Paste Script. 
You should use the name "Blue Bream" there exclusively, or maybe just 
"Bream" for short/internal things like package names.

  - In the meantime, we see if more opinions emerge. This isn't a 
decision we should make in two days.

  - If you're happy that your Blue Bream quickstart thing actually 
works, get together with Marius and Stephan and

Author of `Professional Plone Development`, a book for developers who
want to work with Plone. See

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