Am Freitag 22 Januar 2010 14:46:16 schrieb Lennart Regebro:
> On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 04:55, Alex Clark <> wrote:
> > We certainly
> > have not reached the goal of helping newcomers understand the Zope
> > ecosystem in any other way to date, IMO.)
> If this is so, then I'm surprised. It seems perfectly clear to me.
> 1. In the beginning there is Python, the language.
> 2. Then you get ZCA a component architecture for Python. It has
> nothing to do with Web whatsoever.
> 3. Then we have ZTK. A toolkit for building web frameworks.
> 4. On top of that we have Zope 2, BlueBream and Grok.
> 5. There is also BFG, which doesn't include/build on the ZTK (as the others
> do).
> It's pretty clear to me. Notice the almost complete lack of naming
> confusion, and the plethora of marketable names and TLA's. The paper
> pushers like these kinds of graphs (although I think we need something
> prettier, I might try do do something this weekend, but I'm no
> designer...)

No problem that you are no designer, if the concept is clearly communicated, 
there will be people around who can prettify it.

> And when it comes to separating the frameworks it obviously becomes
> more complex. So we need to explain this, what the different framworks
> are good at in a clear way. I see it like this, but I could be wrong:

The above list (and, 
which resembles the list) pretty much explains and structures things. 
Personally, I think that Plone (and maybe other applications, e.g. Silva?) 
are missing in the big picture (not necessary for explaining BlueBream, 

The problem I see is where to go from this graph/list. I personally would 
expect to be able to advance from there to project home pages. This is true 
for grok/zope2/bluebream (in, and also for BFG  (

What I can't find is some entry page for ZTK (at least I find Nice would be something 
like "" which could be similar to

When it gets to ZCA, I can't find anything, except for Baiju's book and maybe 
somewhere some document about the Zope Component Architecture. If we 
introduce the word ZCA, I would recommend to put up a simple page on 
e.g. "", where people can learn what this is, links to a 
documentation and maybe has some download/install information and some 

Best Regards,

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