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Martijn Faassen wrote:

> Interesting, and thanks for doing this. Concerning Grok, did you look at 
> Grok 1.0 or Grok 1.1?

Just grok/trunk (I was trying to think about the "state of ZTK" in terms
of how it was being used by latest-and-greatest versions of downstream

> For Grok 1.2 we've identified that the following zope.app packages are 
> certainly used:
> * zope.app.wsgi
> * zope.app.appsetup
> * zope.app.publication

On the grok trunk, the following zope.app packages are called
"unconditionally" out in grok's setup.py[1]:

- - zope.app.publication

- - zope.app.publisher

- - zope.app.renderer

- - zope.app.zcmlfiles

and the following further packages say that they are marked as unused,
according to the dependency checker:

- - zope.app.appsetup

- - zope.app.pagetemplate

- - zope.app.security

- - zope.app.twisted

The other zopeapp packages marked for Grok are all transitive
dependencies of something else.

[1] svn.zope.org/*checkout*/grok/trunk/setup.py

> We've eliminated the dependencies of these packages on zope.app.testing 
> and zope.app.zcmlfiles, which both pull in a lot of zope.app.* stuff.


> We've expanded zope.app.wsgi so we can run functional tests and 
> testbrowser tests without zope.app.testing involved; see 
> zope.app.wsgi.testlayer.

Really cool.

> We're in the process for Grok 1.2 to try to reduce Grok's dependencies 
> to this subset. The grokcore.* packages already eliminate the 
> zope.app.zcmlfiles and zope.app.testing dependencies (in the proper 
> development branches), but as of yesterday Grok itself only eliminates 
> the zope.app.testing dependency so far - zope.app.zcmlfiles is next.
> We expect more zope.app.* packages than the ones above will be needed to 
> actually run Grok; we don't quite know which ones yet, and we'll be 
> looking at them on a case by case basis.

I would advocate that such packages be listed explicitly in setup.py,
even if you know that right now they would be pulled in as transitive

> Of course we'll also need the other zope.app.* packages for a while 
> longer to provide backward compatibility imports and such for those 
> upgrading existing Grok apps.

I'm assuming that BBB imports could be "soft" dependencies, and that
developers who are upgrading from earlier Grok versions can adjust their
own buildouts or package depenencies to pull the extras in without Grok
needing to provide "convenience dependencies" -- am I right?

- --
Tres Seaver          +1 540-429-0999          tsea...@palladion.com
Palladion Software   "Excellence by Design"    http://palladion.com
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