Hi there,

On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 10:26 PM, Hanno Schlichting <ha...@hannosch.eu> wrote:
> On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 9:56 PM, Martijn Faassen <faas...@startifact.com> 
> wrote:
>> Last december Hanno made progress on the ZTK's dependency structure,
>> removing a lot of dependencies on packages. In his enthusiasm, he
>> unilaterally just removed all those suddenly-unneeded (by him!) packages
>> from the ZTK, without discussion.
> My actions last December had an unfortunate effect. I assumed a common
> understanding of what the ZTK should be and tried to work towards
> that, but it turned out that understanding wasn't shared after all. I
> should have known better and discussed things before taking any
> actions. For not discussing things properly I apologize.

Okay, apology accepted, but we already discussed this anyway privately
back in december. I apologized for the revert instead of working out
the better
plan that I came up with a few hours later. In my defense, I was
thinking on my feet and we were still touching zope app packages
that needed to be testable, so I didn't want the situation where
testing this was not possible with the ZTK to linger. I also thought
that I was supposed to maintain the process we had in place for
removing packages and this was a bold violation of it, compounded by
people arguing *I* had the burden of proof after this fait accomplit.
I wish there were more steering group members involved at the time,
but I couldn't really help that.

> In didn't see
> any chance of making any progress during the heated debate following
> those events, so I decided to let things cool off and let everyone
> work on their own for a while.

We were making progress in that debate, and actually pretty rapidly,
though it was hard to do amongst all the heat. To me, your walking out
the immediate heat level (though I tried to ignore it), and made it
completely impossible for me to cool off, as this signaled an end to
collaboration and a lack of trust in me.
I tried to cool off for 4 months, but today I still found myself upset
about it, so that obviously wasn't working very well.

>> No, I cannot present it less acrimoniously. The lack of commitment and
>> trust displayed back then still hurts me too much for that.
> Martijn and me tried to discuss this off-list. I think at this stage
> there's no way to solve our disagreement. I'd rather not continue any
> of this in public, as I don't see how this would have any constructive
> effect.

I don't know, perhaps you'll get me more engaged again. I'm in the situation
that I have to work with people here, I want to work with people here,
but my trust in my
ability to work with people here was seriously damaged. Maybe that
gets me out of my dilemma.

> The Zope community asked Christophe, Jan-Wijbrand and me to act as a
> release team for the ZTK and we started working on this task.
> I intend to continue to work in this group. If the Zope community feels I'm 
> not
> qualified for the job or the other two team members don't want to work
> with me, I'll happily step down.

I think you're qualified for the job and I trust you'll do a good one.

I just hope you'll get more trust and credit than I got in december.


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