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Martin Aspeli wrote:
> On 10 September 2010 14:26, Hanno Schlichting <ha...@hannosch.eu> wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 3:17 PM, Martin Aspeli 
>> <optilude+li...@gmail.com<optilude%2bli...@gmail.com>>
>> wrote:
>>> If we *are* going to use a convenience pin, then surely the ability to
>>> install on the world's most-used operating system has to be part of the
>>> convenience. ;-)
>> That's a lame argument. Windows is almost irrelevant for the market we
>> are in - web server deployments.
> 
> 
> Erm, you think so? Maybe we should do a poll on how many Zope / Plone
> developers use Windows on the desktop. Or look at how many people download
> the Windows installer. You need a dev environment, not just deployment, and
> a lot of people are on Windows.
> 
> 
>> Our own community is barely able to
>> keep up providing the most basic Windows support and ensuring tests
>> pass. As long as we don't have more community volunteers actually
>> caring about Windows support, I won't let it be an argument to
>> penalize the rest of the community.
>>
> 
> When the software breaks, people go elsewhere. I didn't say Windows support
> was easy, or any fun. But we have to decide: do we care about people who
> have made (or are forced to make) different technology choices than us, or
> do we tell them their platform is unsupported?

Unless at least *some* of them help, we tell them "Windows is
unsupported" (see below).

>>> If we don't use it, we shouldn't pin it, IMHO. We found this problem
>> because
>>> the Zope KGS was overriding another KGS where we had pinned lxml to
>> 2.2.4. I
>>> don't think Zope has any business getting in the way of that.
>> The KGS is a base KGS you can use. Nobody forces you to stick to it.
>> In fact for every single deployment of your own you will need to
>> extend it. I don't see a problem with the few people using Windows and
>> not installing compilers on their platforms to change one version pin.
>>
> 
>  I think you're missing the point:
> 
>  - We shouldn't pin software we don't use. It may be well intentioned, but
> if we don't depend on it, we shouldn't take responsibility for it, or give
> the perception that we take that responsibility.

I agree with this point.

>  - If we do depend on it, we need to make sure it works on the platforms we
> support. QA isn't something you do only when it's easy to do in your local
> dev sandbox.

See below.

>  - If we suddenly no longer support Windows, we better have the guts to come
> out and say it, stop producing Windows eggs for Zope 2 stuff and explicitly
> state that people cannot and should not use Windows for Zope development. I
> hope that's not the case, though. ;)

The fact is that nobody is supporting Windows *now*:  the tests for
Windows have been breaking on the buildbots "the memory of man runneth
not to the contrary."  Until folks who *do* develop with Zope on Windows
step up to the plate to help at least diagnose those failures, the
platform is de-facto unsupported.


Tres.
- --
===================================================================
Tres Seaver          +1 540-429-0999          tsea...@palladion.com
Palladion Software   "Excellence by Design"    http://palladion.com
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