I've done some more work on this and I've gotten the component
registrations fully working now with one exception that I'm having real
trouble with.  I'd like some help with that, more below.  I'm also a bit
more clear on what might be appropriate to bring back into
zope.interface and I'd like feedback on that.

Currently interfaces are pickled as globals.  Given their centrality in
any ZCA application, I think they should be pickled using a function:

    def __reduce__(self):
        return (find_interface, (modulename, globalname))

where find_interface, if ZODB.broken.find_global can be imported, in
turn calls:

    ZODB.broken.find_global(modulename, globalname,
                            Broken=IBroken, type=InterfaceClass)

since find_global already has nicely abstracted graceful missing global

If this were added to zope.interface, and changed ZODB objects with
marker interfaces or persistent registries where all the code for the
interfaces is still available will then be updated with pickles that
will gracefully handle missing interfaces in the future.  Thus you could
use zodbupdate to make sure that the interfaces in your ZODB will fail
gracefully in the future.  Do you agree/disagree that this belongs in

What this will not address are existing interfaces-as-globals pickles
where the original interface is now missing.  That's where the other
patches in experimental.broken come in, they intercept the two contexts
where we can infer that a missing global should be an interface:
instance provides declarations and persistent component registries.  By
hooking into the unpickling of those objects, we can replace broken
classes with broken interfaces as appropriate for those structures.
With these patches installed it should be possible to use applications
with missing interfaces and to use zodbupdate to make sure that even
*already missing* interfaces will fail gracefully both now and in the
future.  I think these patches don't belong in zope.interface/component
and if they work I would likely move them to five.localsitemanager along
with a ZCML file that is not loaded by default.  Does that sound right?

Then one thing I haven't been able to get working is making it possible
to commit a changed persistent registry when it includes a component
registration for a non-persistent component whose class/type is
missing.  This works just fine for a *persistent* component whose
class/type is missing but fails for a non-persistent component.  The
error is:

    AttributeError: 'Bar' object has no attribute '__Broken_newargs__'

More specifically, '__Broken_newargs__' is set by the Broken.__new__
method and I've confirmed that this isn't being called by instrumenting
__new__, __init__, and __setstate__.  Only __setstate__ is called when
unpickling the non-persistent broken component not __new__ as should
be.  Below is the full traceback.  I've also left the package repo in
the broken state if you want to examine it, the egg checkout is also a


Any help with this last issue would be appreciated.


Ross Patterson <m...@rpatterson.net> writes:

> Please take a look at experimental.broken:
> https://github.com/rpatterson/experimental.broken
> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/experimental.broken
> The handling of broken objects by the ZODB can make an application with
> add-ons that use zope.interface far too fragile.  If marker interfaces
> from an add-on are used on objects in the ZODB, removing that add-on can
> make any zope.interface operation on that object fail.  Even worse, if
> an add-on registers any components in a registry in the ZODB, that
> entire registry will become unusable for any ZCA operations which pretty
> much breaks everything, including admin interfaces.
> Since the interfaces and the ZCA are often core parts of an application
> using the ZODB, it may be appropriate to add special handling for broken
> objects to those services.  The experimental.broken patches are my
> attempt to prototype such special handling.
> For objects in the ZODB which directly provide a marker interface,
> these patches allow that object to behave as without the application
> of the marker interface if the interface is no longer available.  If
> the interface is made available again, the full behavior of that
> interface is restored.  Similarly, if a component whose class,
> provided interface, or required interfaces are missing, these patches
> allow the registry to perform lookups it would have been able to do
> without the broken component registration.  If the component
> class, provided interface, and required interfaces are restored,
> then the component registration is fully restored.
> If an object or registry in the ZODB is committed to the ZODB with
> broken interfaces or components, the commit will succeed and it is still
> possible to fully restore previous behavior if the missing classes and
> interfaces are restored.  Unfortunately, because interfaces are pickled
> as globals, there's no good way to have the same pickle written on
> commit for the interface as was in the original pickle, but it should
> behave exactly the same.
> The intention of this package is to see if the implementation of broken
> object handling is correct and robust enough to merge into
> zope.interface and zope.component themselves.  Is this the right
> approach?  If not why and what would be better?  How might this approach
> be improved?
> Ross
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