On Thursday 21 April 2005 08:13, Chris Withers wrote:
> > Twisted has its own logging framework and the Twisted Web server logs to
> > this framework and not the standard Python one. So we have to hook into
> > it, which this code exactly does.
> So, just to check I understand correctly: Zope 3 plugs into Twisted's
> logging framework such that messages logged to Twisted's logging
> framework get piped through to Python's logging package infrastructure?

Right, but only for one special case, because twisted does not have the 
concept of various loggers. It's framework is much more primitive than the 
zLog-derived logging package.

> Chris - personally, I'd love to see twisted's logging stuff die...

Right, but there is nothing we can do about that. The process to become a 
contributor is quiet lengthy (in my opinion), but I am working on it. In many 
ways the Twisted project does the same mistake as Zope 2, by brewing their 
own stuff that does not work well with Python. So in some sense Twisted in 
quiet unpythonic. The problem is that they have not been bitten by it hard 
yet, simply because of limited exposure. While some developers are very open 
to suggestions, especially itamar, foom and spiv with which I work on the 
project, others do not think they are doing anything wrong and keep 
reinventing the wheel. Reminds me of the old Zope 2 times. 

I am particularly worried about their testing policies, which are not as 
strict as ours and as such Twisted is more vulnerable to breakage, which has 
happened. Unfortunately they brewed together a very non-Python-standard 
testing framework, which makes it very hard to integrate new testing 
innovations, such as DocFileSuite. (Note that I understand their need for 
some customization of their testing framework, since they have to test 

Other than that, I should repeat again, my experience with Twisted has been 
very positive so far.

Stephan Richter
CBU Physics & Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student)
Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training
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