Hi Jim & Martijn, For xParrot we have a case in point where the ZMI both helped and confused us. Because of the way the documentation is 'framed' (where available) it lead us to believe, initially, that ZOPE was the ZMI. The first incarnation of xParrot (an XML/XSLT provider) was intermingled with the ZMI. The next version two was mostly about driving the ZMI out of the equation. The OFS (if I understand correctly we are referring to the file/object representation of ZOPE) is still very valuable for reaching resources. In fact xParrot2 does not use the ZMI at all now but would not be what it was without the OFS.
On the other hand for another project I use the ZMI and the Rotterdam skin to develop faster - providing a useful tree interface. The tree is key here. It is obvious reflection/inspection etc. are quite useful too, during development. I would suggest to accentuate the library side of ZOPE and provide the ZMI as a (lesser) example. For ZOPE3 to replace ZOPE2 a new application engine may be an idea. A powerful engine that is better than Rails - with some code generation - should be an enticing goal for some. Because, take it or leave it, programming with ZOPE is still (too) hard. I learnt Ruby on Rails in a few days. With ZOPE3 I often still am in the dire straights (after a year). We use ZOPE3 because of the superior component model and because it looked better for xParrot, at the time. And in fact, we have no regrets there as Andrew designed xParrot so it can be used without any understanding of Python/ZOPE now. So, there you have one great application without the ZMI. Let me wrap up saying that despite my criticisms I think you all did a great job. The stability and robustness of ZOPE3 is legendary. Deployment is a bit odd, but one gets used to that (I agree about the duplication - but then that is configuration too, it is not that bad). A strong 2007 wished for. Pj. _______________________________________________ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3email@example.com Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com