I would add ZPT, skins and increasingly formlib to the list of things to learn. +1 on demos vs. tutorials. A good working demo functions as both a tutorial and a testimonial.
I think right off the bat, the bookmarker app should be incrementally expanded. Evolving the app *is* the power of Zope3. Other apps that start off easy but can grow increasinly complex fast. * blog * wiki I've been wanting to put together a Concept Map companion to the Bookmarker tutorial. If anyone is interested in helping out please give me a buzz, and I'll setup a collaborative concept map. Roman Susi wrote: > > Joel Moxley wrote: >> On 2/26/06, Roman Susi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>>Hi joel, > > ... > >>>Probably such a simple app doesn't require more than 2 hours from >>>seasoned Zope3 developer ;-) >>> >>>Regards, >>>Roman >> >> >> I think you're right. I rethought what an intro app should be, and I >> think the bookmarker one gets the job done. >> >> The one drawback for the bookmarker is that there's not documentation >> on taking it deeper and making it do more. >> >> Another idea I had would be to take the worldcookery app straight from >> the example code chapter 5 or 6 and provide a streamlined "do this in >> 30 min" introduction. Then if someone wanted to go deeper into what >> they had done or go farther and add more features, philikon's book >> would be right there. The obvious drawback would be the lack of 3.1 >> and 3.2 specific features. >> >> In any event, I think a well-conceived "official" getting started >> guide would carry much weight in that crucial time when someone would >> be looking around at various frameworks like ror and django. There >> are some decent guides out there, and I am curious to see what the >> consensus would be. > > Yes... Zope 3 looks heavy-weight and complicated - not for everyone. And > even non-everyone has hard time. > > Even Karrigell: > > http://karrigell.sourceforge.net/ > > "sells" better to Python programmer with its > > def index(): > print "Hello, world !" > > > thing. (Cf. Zope3 Hello World) > > So, good tutorials and examplar application could help. > > The problem with current Zope3 material is... lack of motivation. To > deal with Zope3 you need to master these concepts: > > - views > - layers > - resources > - viewlets > - content objects > - schemas > - utilities > - services > - site > - interfaces > - adapters > - principals > - tests > - ZCML configuration > (have I forgot anything?) > > And you need to RTFM a lot! And then spend a lot of time writing > IHelloWorld, configure.zcml, permissions, etc. around simple thing: > > def index(self): > return "Hello, world !" > > So, examplar app should show WHY do I want all this. Then Zope3 will be > ready to accept Wows! and attract people who go to Ruby railstation or > whatever. And I want to know HOW the power of Python is useful inside > Zope3. By the impression (first and second) I see no reason why Zope3 is > done in Python and not in Java or Cobol. > > Probably, several apps/components are required to show the best of > Zope3. For example, PythonCard has (and always had) a lot of small demos > which REALLY demonstrate why using PythonCard is easier than just plain > wxWindows / wxWidgets. And those demos are small because using > PythonCard framework made applications small. > > Maybe SQLObject can be used to make things more compact. > > (BTW, I think that "ZODBObject" for ZODB could be a far more plus. Yes, > I know ZODBObject is just Persistent object in Zope, but how do I make > this with ZODB as easy as: > > class Person(SQLObject): > ... > addresses = MultipleJoin('Address') > > ? That is, quering ZODB is difficult (it's probably a problem of any > OODB, but nonetheless). > > ) > > To summarize, are there any demo apps which make people jump with joy? I > do not believe Zope3 is difficult because its serious framework. > Frameworks are there to subtract complexity, not add. And demos are just > for that: to show cases where complexity is reduced. > > Please note, that I changed discussion from tutorial to demo. This is > because I believe that good demo is also good tutorial. > > Regards, > Roman Suzi > _______________________________________________ > Zope3-users mailing list > Zope3firstname.lastname@example.org > http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users > > -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/introductory-app-idea%3A-music-filesystem-browser-t1162019.html#a3156058 Sent from the Zope3 - users forum at Nabble.com. _______________________________________________ Zope3-users mailing list Zope3email@example.com http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope3-users