I wonder what is that state of pure Zope 3 CMSs? - Cubic and z3ecm
come to mind, see below.

Me too! :)

I am aware that sytems like *Plone* offer everything you can imagine
for serious CMS development. But being based on Zope 2 (and just
slowly moving towards Zope 3 by means of Five) they also carry a lot
of baggage with them:

* Say you want to develop a Plone product based on Zope 3 (Five): You effectively have to master Zope 2, Plone and Zope 3.

To a certain extend that is true. It depends on what you're trying to do. Sometimes you can do things almost entirely in a Zope 3 style (at least going forward, we are doing this as much as we can for Plone 3 and later), other times Zope 3 doesn't make much sense, and other times again you have to straddle both platforms.

Better documentation on the patterns is forthcoming, as we figure out the details for ourselves.

* On my debian system (after installation of plone-site)
  du -h /var/lib/zope2.8/instance/plone-site/Products/
  gives me: 19M - that's a lot.

Yeah, there are a lot of files in there. Note that a bunch of them are from CMF, which offers functionality in some cases at the same conceptual level as what Zope 3 offers, and also a lot of that is images. It's fairly impossible to compare, though.

Many portals start out as some small projects and might not need all
the fancy stuff. Being small in code and therefore easily manageble
might be more important.

The main reason I develop on top of Plone is that it's already proven to support a whole bunch of use cases in the real world that I'd rather not have to implement myself. It's often easier to take bits away from Plone than to put bits on top of a lower level framework. Often it seems easy in the beginning, but the devils are in the details. That is why I'd love to see what's been going on with the pure Zope 3 CMS' that solve real-world use cases for real users. I'm sure we'd have a lot to learn from them as well.

Besides: if they where solely based on Zope
3, adding more stuff to them should be easier anyway (by means of
adapters e. g.).


Cubic and z3ecm come to my mind - are there more?



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