Hermann Himmelbauer wrote:
 Am Mittwoch, 6. Februar 2008 18:24 schrieb Baiju M:
> In fact, I started an effort to document this, but I want more help
>  from this group.  I had announced two book projects to this list
> earlier. The first one was a failure [1], but the second one I
> succeded with help from you all [2].  I am going to re-start the
> first effort again, I hope this time it will be a success :)
> The new book, "Web Application Development Using Python and Zope
> Components" will be available from here:
> http://wadupaz.muthukadan.net/

 Thanks for the link and your effort, this is somehow helpful.
 However, I have the following suggestions (regarding the buildout

Thanks for your feedback.  I am not really an expert in Zope 3,
in fact this is my attempt to learn it :)

 1) Like so often in the Zope world, I miss the "big picture" - I (or
 better, the newbies) don't really know what's happening here. What
 exactly is buildout? What's an Egg/setuptools/PyPi? (references would
 also help here). I'd very much appreciate illustrations, something
 like simple block diagrams that show, for example, how buildout pulls
 together needed modules.

I will try to explain it in the second chapter.

 2) Much content is in a recipe-like fashion, for instance on page 4
 you specify in install_requires "zope.app.zcmlfiles, zope.app.twisted
 and zope.app.securitypolicy". Why do you use exactly these modules?
 Are they the very minimum for Zope3? What about other modules, e.g.
 formlib? Is there some overview for available modules?

I am not very sure where I should add details about these "bare minimum"
packages. Anyway, I will add a brief intro about it in the first chapter itself.

 3) Page 5 and 6 is not understandable for newcomers - they can simply
 cut & paste the code but they will never know what happens here as
 they lack the knowledge of e.g. what a ZopeSecurityPolicy is, how the
 ZopeDB works etc. I, too, don't really know where my instance data
 will be situated (var/, log/, site-packages/ etc/). I think things
 would be a lot easier if the user can call some "mkzopeinstance"
 script as in the tarballs that does this stuff for him.

Explaining everything in the first chapter would be difficult, I will continue this
example in the 3rd chapter (yet to be written) and explain it there.

 4) When using eggs, packages are normally kept in an ".egg" file,
 therefore I can't have a look at the Zope3 source code - which is
 inevitable for Zope3 development. AFAIK, there's some option that
 lets easy_install decompress the eggs and install it in plain text,
 is this also the case in your book?

This is one problem with eggs.  I am going to reccomend checkout Zope 3
source for looking at code.

 5) The book gives me the overall impression that installing Zope3 the
 egg-style way requires me to do quite some really complicated stuff
 I even don't really understand in full depth. Compared to that,
 installing Zope3 from the tarball is a lot easier - it's basically
 about "./configure, make install, mkzopeinstance", which is not
 complicated at all.

Installing Zope using 'zopeproject' [1] would be much easier.
But, for time being, I am not going to include it.

Nowadays, peoples are moving away from pure Zope 3 application
development, instead they will use Grok, Zope 2,Plone etc.
So, this is my experiment with truth [2] (pun intended)

[1] http://pypi.python.org/pypi/zopeproject
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Story_of_My_Experiments_with_Truth

Baiju M
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