Andrew Kenneth Milton wrote:
> +----[ Bill Anderson ]---------------------------------------------
> | Andrew Kenneth Milton wrote:
> | >
> | > +----[ Dr. Ross Lazarus ]---------------------------------------------
> | > | I know that zope runs on everything else, but how do we reconcile the
> | > | DC/Sybase partnership announced late last year
> | >
> | > [ snip... ]
> | >
> | > | We're becoming a sybase/zope/linux dependent outfit; to whom should I
> | > | email my concerns - or is it time to move to another SQL backend?
> | >
> | > They picked the wrong free UNIX platform. Linux has a whole lot of
> | > machines installed, but, not too many of them would be deployed in an
> | > Enterprise environment, where people would be happy to pay money for
> | > licenses.
> |
> | The claim that Linux is not deployed in Enterprise environments is uninformed at 
>best. The most recent announcement came
> | from Google, which claims 4000+ Linux servers. Clearly an enterpise environment.
> | ( )
> err no. Read again... "not deployed in Enterprise environment, where people
> would be happy to pay money for..." as opposed to deployed where people
> want stuff for free - or as free as they can get it.

You may want to re-read the article. They _did_  pay for Redhat, even though they 
didn't _have_ to; though they didn't
have to pay for licenses for all 4K+ machines. In fact, even at HP, many of my users 
prefer to go buy a RedHat boxed
set, rather than use one of my CDs or install over the network.

I would say people _wanting_ to pay for a product they can get for free trumps those 
who 'have to' pay for it. :^)

BTW, most people in enterprise situations are not _happy_ to pay large licensing fees, 
it is just that they can afford
it, and have in the past accepted it as mandatory.

> Face it if you're
> doing web stuff using Zope (or anything else), you're not looking to go and
> pay Sybase for something just as good, with a hefty price-tag.

I use Zope not because it is free, but because it is _good_. I use it because I like 
it, it gets the job done, and does
it well. Given that in my case we _have_ Sybase (IOW, it cost me nothing more for 
Sybase), and I use Zope instead your
argument falls short. I have customers and clients who have paid for [Oracle, 
Informix, Sybase] Licenses, and some of
them have dropped it and now use Zope/ZODB.

> You still
> have to pay developers, and 'commercial' stuff usually attracts people at
> twice the rate of the going Open Source developers.

Not anymore, but I think we are using different terminology.

> PHP is firmly entrenched as the ASP of Linux at this stage and it's going
> to take a very long stick and a very firm place to stand to shift it.
> | And, of course, there is IBM.
> Who do a lot of open stuff, with FreeBSD as well. But marketing requires
> a Linux presence these days... mustn't let that share price slip.. :-)

Yes, but that stil ldoesn't change the fact that they are doing _lots_ of Linux stuff. 
:^) Do yhey offer enterprise
level 24x7 technical support for FreeBSD? :)

> | > An OS heavily promoted by one specific individual who doesn't really believe
> | > in commercial software doesn't seem like the ultimate platform to aim
> | > high-priced internet application software at.
> |
> | While I don't mean any offense, your characterization here is both unwarranted and 
>unfounded. ESR and Linus (not sure
> | exactly whom you refer to) both believe in commercial software just fine.
> Actually referring to RMS...

My experience with RMS is that he promotes FSF more than Linux. He actually has an 
issue with Linux :)
> | In addition, if you look at the largest promoters of Linux, you will not find any 
>one individual. Rather, you will find
> | an array of companies, of all sizes; from ISP's to ol' Big Blue. IBM, for example, 
>is in the process of porting most
> | everything they have to Linux. And they do it for commercial reasons.
> One wonders if Oracle's Linux product has actually recouped them the
> development costs. Most of the larger Linux promoters are trying to get a
> leg into the 'smaller' market that was dominated by NT. If they can offer
> their products on hardware that doesn't cost more than a house, then they
> have opened a new market. Linux is obviously a means to an end here. They're
> trying to make a sale, they don't particularly care about Linux.

Which is, of course, irrelevant. If they support it, they support it. I consider it a 
given that any of the commercial
outfits are getting into Linux for financial/commercial reasons.

Now, I'll leave the  list alone on this subject, I'm sure they'll appreciate it. 



Do not meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for they are easy to annoy,
and have the root password.

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