> What Manila has done is to provide some reasonable default templates for
> getting useful site development work done 'out of the box' - they have
> provided a structure template, and well defined access to changing the
> obvious things people want to change.

I see.  Having higher level drop-in Web sites, IMO, is a job for add-on Zope
products that could be created by DC or the community to meet various needs
(as in Squishdot like projects).  As the Zope community grows, I have no
doubt that more add-on products for "Web sites in a can" will pop up.

> > to do so.  Zope (in my experience) does nothing to limit the ability to
> make
> > a site attractive, but it does do buckets for increasing manageability.
> Yes. I quite agree..But why are there no attractive Zope sites?

I can only guess that most Zope users are either not designers or are so
filled with awe over its power that they forget to put effort into beauty.
:-)  I think Zope lends itself more to the programmer and content provider
types, and leaves the designer with nothing special to desire.  I don't say
that in a bad way, but Zope isn't a design tool, so designers have no
special interest in learning to use it.  As Zope makes its way into more
businesses with design teams, pretty design will make its way into more Zope

> > world examples of Zope's power.  Using any of the already available
> > calendar-like products for Zope, DC could easily create a calendar to
> browse
> > through stuff.  Again, it's not a limitation of Zope, the
> developers just
> > didn't do it.
> Yes and I am continuously curious why they did not?

My understanding is that DC has been putting so much of their resources into
the Zope core, much needed documentation, and probably their consulting
business, that their own Web site has been left with a lower priority.  I
don't fault them for that.  I think they've done a great job at

> And if you select yes you will get 'index_html' and 'acl_users' included..
> THIS is the entry point I am talking about
> The 'Add a Folder' page needs to offer more so that it can default to the
> immediate bones of a useful site, methods and links. The irony to

I think the "bones of a useful site" belong in a different object than a
Folder, though I agree that specialized products/objects for canned sites
would be a nice addition to the Zope products list, whether from DC or the


Ron Bickers
Logic Etc, Inc.

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