David - I am new to Zope, but I feel your assessment is correct.  We have
developed and deployed very large applications using PHP/C++, and are now
looking to Zope to take us into the next stage.  Python seems excellent at
object orientation and neatness with minimal effort by the developer.   

Asab - Do you know any types of large applications that are in Java?  I have
seen only a few, and they are particularly bad, such as the Oracle
installer, Star Office, and Eclipse. All are excessively large, slow, and
buggy.  We have one competitor using J2EE, and it requires them 10 times the
resources (both financial and labor), as it does us using PHP, and their
application is poor and difficult to modify for customer needs.  Only highly
trained engineers can understand and use Java, making maintenance expensive
and challenging.  Our initial efforts in Zope lead us to believe we can be
even faster and better using Zope and Python than we were able with PHP (we
use PHP with classes).  Have you not found this to be case?  I'm not trying
to be difficult, but I have so much trouble understanding the appeal of
Java.  Thank you.


-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
David H
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 8:23 PM
To: Asad Habib
Cc: Jonathan Cyr; zope@zope.org
Subject: Re: [Zope] Java vs Zope

Asad Habib wrote:

>> From my experience, Java development has been a lot faster when 
>
> applications have middle to high level complexity. Since Java is 
> inherently object-oriented, reusability is much easier to achieve then 
> when using Zope. Also, Java has mature development and debugging 
> environments and well organized API's. Zope is seriously lacking in 
> this regard.
>
> Zope is good for building simple interfaces but any application that 
> does data processing and requires session management should be left 
> for Java. The closest comparison to Zope that I can think of is PHP.
>
> Again, this is just my opinion based on my own experiences.
>
> - Asad

Asad,

Python is also object oriented.  In python, x = 10 creates an object not 
a simple type - if I recall the same is true in Java.

The comparison should first be between python and java.  I've used both 
and prefer python.

The next compare should be between developement platforms for each: e.g. 
Zope vs some java IDE.

Lastly, I think Zope is more than capable of handling "complex 
applications" using external databases.  I've not run into a single 
barrier doing this using Zope (other than fleeing braincells).

All best,
David



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