>From Tino: --
No matter if DTML is still there (and it will) we should
find better ways to teach people how to easy develope in

Yes, you are right on all you mention.  I didn't know PT was available in other environments/languages.  Interesting.  However, I still don't want to use them.  Doesn't mean that someday I wont find a need and desire for it though. 

The reason I don't use PT is because I can do what I want without it.  You mention that better ways to teach is needed, and you are right about that, but when someone like me has no desire to learn it, then it wont help.  Worth noting though, I have looked at it briefly, and it confused the hell out of me. So, you may be right on anyway, because if it were explained in a such a way that caused me to just *get it*, then maybe I would go that route. 

I guess it's really a matter of, do I want to spend the time to learn something when I am loaded with other things to learn all the time, and why fix it if it isnt broke? (broke from my perspective ,that is.)

Well, why can't there also be good training on DTML as well?  (actually, I don't thinks it's all that bad anyway.)  And, like Gary asked, why can't there be a peaceful coexistence bewteen the ZPT and DTML fans?  The reason why I ask?  Because there is commonley someone saying *DTML sucks, use PT* when users ask questions about DTML.  (maybe not in those words, but you get the idea.) 

I don't know.  I do appreciate your responses and thoughts Tino. (as you have always done for me in the past)


On 1/16/06, Tino Wildenhain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Greg Fischer schrieb:
> I like what you said, be tolerant.  Some of us don't see the limitations
> of DTML as something that is broken, or that it is not good.  I don't

I see we have to improve teaching.

> think there is anything wrong with ZPT either, I simply don't have a use
> for it.  Coexist? Yes, I hope they always do.
> Personally, I am doing more and more with PHP.  There are multiple
> reasons for that, but partly it is due to a conception in the Zope
> community that DTML is bad, and as such, it might go away. The *hype* is
> all about ZPT, not DTML.  I don't want to pursue a development platform

You can have PT with PHP too. Thats the cool part about it. Its really
kinda standard. You have PT for Zope, PHP, Perl, Java, ...

> that is a foundation of my applications on something that is going away,
> or even hinting to it.  That might not be the case, might be totally
> false.  But we cant deny the fact that if there is no hype, then there
> is no attention to it, and less people will use it and even less will
> support it.

I dont think thats the problem. I saw even weirder frameworks
to work with. I guess we could introduce an even suckier template
language and people would fall in love with it.

BTW: ZPT is not, and was never a replacement for DTML.
DTML would be replaced by application logic in python
or python scripts and ZPT together.

No matter if DTML is still there (and it will) we should
find better ways to teach people how to easy develope in


Greg Fischer
1st Byte Solutions
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