On Fri, April 3, 2009 21:18, Aleksey Tsalolikhin wrote:
> Hi.  FYI, I have a client using Zope 2 in production.   I am migrating
> him from Zope 2.7 on SUSE 10.1 to Zope 2.10 on CentOS 5.2.
> He's not using plone.  He has a custom Web app.  He expects to keep
> using Zope 2, and to continue development of our Web application.

hi there. i think it's important for you guys to let you know that
xlhost.de is also run completely on a zope backend. we use 100% zodb
for all business objects. we were able to jump from release to release
starting back then at 2.6 and now latest 2.10 is running since a few
days. there were two products that actually broke during this time
when moving to a new major zope 2 version:

 - localfs, as discussed which needed a few minor tweaks to keep it
   running. i did them myself, primarily because i wanted to keep
   going on immediately and i didn't want to look or even wait for
   a fixed version. it wasn't rocket science to make those corrections
   to the code, so no maintenance nightmare in sight here.

 - unrestricted pagetemplates, i had to come up with my own solution
   here, because it broke when moving to 2.8 and had some patches on
   board that deeply relied on 2.7 interna, as far as i remember.
   work needed was ~2h, so nothing to worry about either.

otherwise the upgrades were always pretty smooth, i like the "big
monolythic tarball release" very much, as the upgrade process is
very straightforward: download, unpack, build, install.
in cannot see this "maintenance nightmare" asf. that certain people
on this list proclaim to exist regarding zope2.

as long as all those zope3-ish stuff and it's docs (if they really
exist) is so scattered across million places, all that stuff is
pretty unattractive to "old school" zope users like myself, that
have to keep a business running based on zope2.

would i have to choose a appserver/db/whatever again for my backend,
i'd go for something else, but not zope anymore.
reason? well just look at zope.org, enough said. not even a basic
version of a new page has made it to life yet - reasons therefor?
i don't know. i've been following zope and zope-dev mls for quite
some time and over time the tone spoken here has not improved,
rather the opposite is true. this is quite contrary to a few other
devel mls i'm on!

please don't get me wrong, i don't want to piss anybody off here.
i'm quite happy to have zope running, and it's running very fine
indeed. i can help myself out with almost all problems nowadays,
but i have people in mind that are new to zope and want to try
it. and if i try to "feel" the situation these folks are in, i'd
probably not choose zope for various reasons. seems like more and
more things are dying in the zope world :(

the only thing i can try to suggest for real improvement is:
get things going. try them. don't kill good ideas by bad
discussion right from the start. think positive. :)

otherwise the zope community will never grow again. everybody
can decide for himself it community growth is a good thing for
him or not. i think some people are of the latter kind :/

just my two cents, it was time to speak up. in no way did i mean
to insult anybody personally here, just in case...

best regards and keep up the good work!

jürgen herrmann
>> XLhost.de - eXperts in Linux hosting ® <<

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Boelckestrasse 21, 93051 Regensburg, Germany

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