alt.politics.usa.misc http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.usa.misc?hl=en
alt.politics.usa.misc@googlegroups.com Today's topics: * Disillusioned Democrats Turning on Obama - 1 messages, 1 author http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.usa.misc/t/f6ba1fa7da78a775?hl=en * WWII - 1 messages, 1 author http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.usa.misc/t/ddd8446019a29dab?hl=en * c'mon chaps....pour some more crud from the filthy fossil fuel industry into the river....no. 43 - 5 messages, 2 authors http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.usa.misc/t/da55717da8231a2a?hl=en * The global-cooling cover-up - 1 messages, 1 author http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.usa.misc/t/774d83f59f09d6dc?hl=en ============================================================================== TOPIC: Disillusioned Democrats Turning on Obama http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.usa.misc/t/f6ba1fa7da78a775?hl=en ============================================================================== == 1 of 1 == Date: Wed, Nov 25 2009 11:25 pm From: "Devil's Advocate" http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/obama_democrat_critics/2009/11/25/29112 1.html Disillusioned Democrats Turning on Obama Wednesday, November 25, 2009 6:54 PM After just 10 months in office, President Barack Obama is facing a rebellion on several fronts from his natural base of liberal Democrats. And while it’s too early to measure the political cost, what is striking is how rapidly disaffection is growing. The most recent example of this fallout is the war in Afghanistan, which has alienated liberals who believed that Obama would quickly pull out from Iraq and close the terrorist detention facilities in Guantanamo. Instead, they are now looking at their once cherished candidate poised to announce that he is sending some 30,000 additional troops to Afghanistan. But the liberal critique of Obama is much broader. His supporters now feel betrayed on issues ranging from climate change, offshore oil drilling, gay marriage and government-run healthcare. On issue after issue, they’ve watched him backtrack from the lofty promises of the campaign trail. Even more worrisome for Obama, many are having doubts about his intelligence and decisiveness. The criticisms are not only coming from policy wonks but Hollywood, the nation’s urban elites and even grassroots groups who had gone gaga over America’s first African-American president. Some recent examples: # On Tuesday, Florida's Democratic U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson blasted Obama’s handling of the economic crisis and his tepid handling of the offshore oil drilling issues. # On Monday, Rep. David Obey, D-Wis., who chairs the powerful House Appropriations Committee, said that if President Obama does approve an increase in troop levels, the war should financed by a surtax on the rich. # On Saturday, “Saturday Night Live” offered a scathing skit in which Obama was depicted as a dolt who is increasing the debt exponentially, backed by his bogus accounting. The skit followed another earlier in the season in which Obama was depicted as a “do-nothing” president. # Maureen Dowd, The New York Time’s liberal columnist who lambasted conservatives during 8 years of the Bush administration, has turned her venom on Obama, slamming him this week for his treatment of Greg Craig, the adviser charged with pushing Obama’s now broken promise of closing Guantanamo by the end of the year. “Many donors and passionate supporters are let down by Obama’s detachment, puzzled at his failure to make them feel invested when he’s certain to come back to tap their well soon enough,” Dowd wrote. In an analysis Wednesday, Washington Post staff writer Joel Achenbach quoted liberal historians who seem to already be writing Obama off for his lack of strength and political saavy. “Some of his supporters would like to see him show more fire in the belly and recapture the energy that propelled him to victory last year,” Achenbach wrote. "I think the Obama we've seen as president is a very different Obama than we saw during the campaign. He doesn't seem to be connected, he doesn't seem to have the passion, he doesn't seem to be conveying the grand and inspiring vision," progressive historian Allan Lichtman of American University told Achenbach. "If you want to be a transformational president, you've got to take the risks." Sean Wilentz, a history professor at Princeton, told the Post that Obama has suffered from unrealistic expectations among those who put him in office. "They kind of were sold Utopia, and they bought it, and it didn't happen," he says. "People were comparing the candidate to Abraham Lincoln before he served a day of his presidency. Nobody can live up to that." What is striking is how vocal even normally staid Democrats like Florida’s Nelson have become in their criticism of Obama. Speaking for almost an hour to the Chamber of Southwest Florida at Edison State College this week, Nelson said Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner "has not done a very good job in leading our banking system to recovery." The administration's response to the real estate crisis "was a tepid loan modification" that helped little, "and their response to commercial real estate has been absent altogether," Nelson said. He voted "no" on the TARP program, which he called "a $700 billion bailout of Wall Street banks that had zero accountability for executives and no meaningful reform." Other former fans of the president have focused on the administration’s handling of healthcare. Many of his supporters thought that Obama would embrace a European single-payer socialist model when the debate began. Instead, he has consistently waffled, sometimes supporting the notion, but more recently giving up on it altogether. While much attention has been focused on the war between the White House and Fox News, liberal network MSNBC has amped up its criticism of Obama. The New York Times recently noted that host Rachel Maddow has been particularly angry with Obama on the subject of healthcare. On a recent show, Maddow pretended to celebrate the passage of a health care overhaul bill in the House, calling it “potentially a huge generational win for the Democratic Party.” But then the triumphant music halted and she pulled out the daggers. The healthcare bill was nothing more than “electoral defeat,” she said, focusing on the provisions in the bill to prevent government-funded abortion. They represented “the biggest restriction on abortion rights in a generation.” Then Maddow wondered aloud about the consequences for Democrats “if they don’t get women or anybody who’s pro-choice to ever vote for them again.” She returned to the subject the next four evenings in a row, according to the Times. Maddow has also taken Obama on for his halting policies on gays serving openly in the military, gay marriage, and Guantanamo. Representatives for two gay members of the military, Dan Choi and Victor Fehrenbach, approached Maddow’s producers about coming out on her show, in March and May respectively. Introducing Fehrenbach, Maddow intoned that he was about to be fired “in the shadow of these political promises left unfulfilled.” Other MSNBC hosts have also objected to some of the president’s policy decisions. In April, Keith Olbermann, the channel’s best-known voice, urged Obama to hold members of the Bush administration accountable for what he called the “torture of prisoners.” “Prosecute, Mr. President,” he said. “Even if you get not one conviction, you will still have accomplished good for generations unborn.” And host Chris Matthews, who offered during the campaign that an Obama speech sent a thrill up his leg, and that he would do anything he could to help Obama succeed, has also found his hero wanting. Matthews questions the decision to try 9/11 terrorist Khalid Sheik Mohammed in New York, and has used former Vice President Dick Cheney’s line that Obama has been 'dithering' on Afghanistan. Matthews hasn’t compared Obama to Jimmy Carter, as some like Don Imus have, but goes all the way back to the feckless Adlai Stevenson, the Democrat famous for pontificating who lost to Dwight D. Eisenhower. “It does look like, because we have our president in the White House, we’re giving him a little bit more room. But that wasn’t intended,” said Lynn Woolsey, D-Calif., co-chairwoman of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, speaking to Roll Call this week on the subject Afghanistan. ============================================================================== TOPIC: WWII http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.usa.misc/t/ddd8446019a29dab?hl=en ============================================================================== == 1 of 1 == Date: Thurs, Nov 26 2009 3:16 am From: Topaz This Isn't The Britain We Fought For,' Say Britons of World War II Era Daily Mail (Britain) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1229643/This-isnt-Britain-fought-say-unknown-warriors-WWII.html .. .. Nearly 400,000 Britons died. Millions more were scarred by the experience, physically and mentally. But was it worth it? Her answer - and the answer of many of her contemporaries, now in their 80s and 90s - is a resounding No. They despise what has become of the Britain they once fought to save. It's not our country any more, they say, in sorrow and anger .. .. They feel, in a word that leaps out time and time again, 'betrayed' .. .. "Those comrades of mine who never made it back would be appalled if they could see the world as it is today." .. .. "Our British culture is draining away at an ever increasing pace," wrote an ex-Durham Light Infantryman, "and we are almost forbidden to make any comment." http://www.ihr.org/ www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/ http://www.natvan.com http://www.nsm88.org http://heretical.com/ http://immigration-globalization.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================== TOPIC: c'mon chaps....pour some more crud from the filthy fossil fuel industry into the river....no. 43 http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.usa.misc/t/da55717da8231a2a?hl=en ============================================================================== == 1 of 5 == Date: Thurs, Nov 26 2009 2:19 pm From: abelard coal? why not... oil? fine... gas? why not.... but please no clean safe nuclear power good job it's not a gallon of low level nuclear waste... roll up roll up...poor your arsenic and mercury into our river.... a million gallons of crud a day should be great.... good job the filthy fossil fuel industry gives obarmy 'donations' 25 nov 2009... http://www.southernstudies.org/2009/11/tva-gets-ok-to-dump-more-toxic-coal-waste-into-ash-polluted-river.html Last month the Tennessee Department of Environment and Conservation (TDEC) granted TVA a permit under the Clean Water Act that will allow the federal corporation to discharge wastewater polluted with toxic arsenic, mercury and selenium into the river from the plant in Roane County. The discharge will come from from a pond that will hold liquid waste collected from a new air pollution scrubber. That permit is being challenged by three environmental advocacy groups -- Earthjustice, the Environmental Integrity Project and the Sierra Club. "The Clean Water Act requires TDEC to eliminate toxic discharges from the Kingston plant," says EIP Attorney Lisa Widawsky. "Instead, incredibly, TDEC is authorizing new discharges of toxic heavy metals -- to the tune of one million gallons a day -- into the same river devastated by the Kingston coal ash spill." ... china's latest coal mine disaster kills 108 3 nov 2009 http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5g4UPWd3x4z2btiEx4MYfl-BBA0Lw "Monitoring the clean-up of a huge oil spill in pristine Australian waters could take as long as seven years, an official said Wednesday as environmentalists urged a wide-ranging inquiry into the disaster." canada deelighted with one of the filthiest fossil fuel site on the planet http://www.canada.com/business/fp/Alberta+deficit+shrinks+billion/2272166/story.html "Stronger investment income, oil royalties and corporate income tax revenues have buoyed the Alberta government’s economic picture, reducing the province’s projected deficit to $4.3-billion. In its fiscal update in August, the government forecast the 2009-10 shortfall to rise to $6.9-billion from its initial budget projection of a $4.7-billion deficit." gas?? http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gBj6FQpRXrxsKovHU6JL9I0MUveQD9C5F1F80 "A fourth victim has died from injuries suffered in a natural gas explosion that tore through a North Carolina Slim Jim plant five months ago, a hospital spokesman said Monday. Curtis Ray Poppe, 55, died Thursday at the North Carolina Jaycee Burn Center in Chapel Hill, spokesman Tom Hughes said. An obituary posted by a Hickory funeral home said Poppe's family greeted friends there Sunday. Four critically burned victims were among the 71 who required hospital treatment after the June blast at the ConAgra Foods Inc. plant in Garner, said U.S. Chemical Safety Board lead investigator Don Holmstrom." ... world wide deaths from nuclear plants in the last ten years... probably zero.... but be very scared of those rays!! regards -- web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics energy, education, politics, etc over 1 million document calls in year past -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick. good people do nothing [] trust actions not words only when it's funny -- roger rabbit -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- == 2 of 5 == Date: Thurs, Nov 26 2009 2:49 pm From: First Post On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 23:19:06 +0100, abelard <abela...@abelard.org> wrote: > >coal? why not... >oil? fine... >gas? why not.... > >but please no clean safe nuclear power > > >good job it's not a gallon of low level nuclear waste... > >roll up roll up...poor your arsenic and mercury into our river.... > >a million gallons of crud a day should be great.... > >good job the filthy fossil fuel industry gives obarmy 'donations' > > >25 nov 2009... >http://www.southernstudies.org/2009/11/tva-gets-ok-to-dump-more-toxic-coal-waste-into-ash-polluted-river.html >Last month the Tennessee Department of Environment and Conservation >(TDEC) granted TVA a permit under the Clean Water Act that will allow >the federal corporation to discharge wastewater polluted with toxic >arsenic, mercury and selenium into the river from the plant in Roane >County. The discharge will come from from a pond that will hold liquid >waste collected from a new air pollution scrubber. > >That permit is being challenged by three environmental advocacy groups >-- Earthjustice, the Environmental Integrity Project and the Sierra >Club. > >"The Clean Water Act requires TDEC to eliminate toxic discharges from >the Kingston plant," says EIP Attorney Lisa Widawsky. "Instead, >incredibly, TDEC is authorizing new discharges of toxic heavy metals >-- to the tune of one million gallons a day -- into the same river >devastated by the Kingston coal ash spill." >... >china's latest coal mine disaster kills 108 > >3 nov 2009 >http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5g4UPWd3x4z2btiEx4MYfl-BBA0Lw >"Monitoring the clean-up of a huge oil spill in pristine Australian >waters could take as long as seven years, an official said Wednesday >as environmentalists urged a wide-ranging inquiry into the disaster." > > >canada deelighted with one of the filthiest fossil fuel site on the >planet >http://www.canada.com/business/fp/Alberta+deficit+shrinks+billion/2272166/story.html >"Stronger investment income, oil royalties and corporate income tax >revenues have buoyed the Alberta government’s economic picture, >reducing the province’s projected deficit to $4.3-billion. > >In its fiscal update in August, the government forecast the 2009-10 >shortfall to rise to $6.9-billion from its initial budget projection >of a $4.7-billion deficit." > > >gas?? >http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gBj6FQpRXrxsKovHU6JL9I0MUveQD9C5F1F80 >"A fourth victim has died from injuries suffered in a natural gas >explosion that tore through a North Carolina Slim Jim plant five >months ago, a hospital spokesman said Monday. > >Curtis Ray Poppe, 55, died Thursday at the North Carolina Jaycee Burn >Center in Chapel Hill, spokesman Tom Hughes said. An obituary posted >by a Hickory funeral home said Poppe's family greeted friends there >Sunday. > >Four critically burned victims were among the 71 who required hospital >treatment after the June blast at the ConAgra Foods Inc. plant in >Garner, said U.S. Chemical Safety Board lead investigator Don >Holmstrom." >... > >world wide deaths from nuclear plants in the last ten years... > probably zero.... >but be very scared of those rays!! > >regards And just who are the biggest opponents of clean nuclear energy? Why the left wing environmental movement of course. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x102714 http://wapedia.mobi/en/Anti-nuclear http://climateprogress.org/2009/11/07/david-frum-conservatives-heart-nuke-power/ Interesting that you are on the same side of the issue as Rush Limbaugh and other conservatives. == 3 of 5 == Date: Thurs, Nov 26 2009 3:00 pm From: abelard On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 16:49:43 -0600, First Post <last_p...@lyingleftistsare.invalid> wrote: >On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 23:19:06 +0100, abelard <abela...@abelard.org> >wrote: > >> >>coal? why not... >>oil? fine... >>gas? why not.... >> >>but please no clean safe nuclear power >> >> >>good job it's not a gallon of low level nuclear waste... >> >>roll up roll up...poor your arsenic and mercury into our river.... >> >>a million gallons of crud a day should be great.... >> >>good job the filthy fossil fuel industry gives obarmy 'donations' >> >> >>25 nov 2009... >>http://www.southernstudies.org/2009/11/tva-gets-ok-to-dump-more-toxic-coal-waste-into-ash-polluted-river.html >>Last month the Tennessee Department of Environment and Conservation >>(TDEC) granted TVA a permit under the Clean Water Act that will allow >>the federal corporation to discharge wastewater polluted with toxic >>arsenic, mercury and selenium into the river from the plant in Roane >>County. The discharge will come from from a pond that will hold liquid >>waste collected from a new air pollution scrubber. >> >>That permit is being challenged by three environmental advocacy groups >>-- Earthjustice, the Environmental Integrity Project and the Sierra >>Club. >> >>"The Clean Water Act requires TDEC to eliminate toxic discharges from >>the Kingston plant," says EIP Attorney Lisa Widawsky. "Instead, >>incredibly, TDEC is authorizing new discharges of toxic heavy metals >>-- to the tune of one million gallons a day -- into the same river >>devastated by the Kingston coal ash spill." >>... >>china's latest coal mine disaster kills 108 >> >>3 nov 2009 >>http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5g4UPWd3x4z2btiEx4MYfl-BBA0Lw >>"Monitoring the clean-up of a huge oil spill in pristine Australian >>waters could take as long as seven years, an official said Wednesday >>as environmentalists urged a wide-ranging inquiry into the disaster." >> >> >>canada deelighted with one of the filthiest fossil fuel site on the >>planet >>http://www.canada.com/business/fp/Alberta+deficit+shrinks+billion/2272166/story.html >>"Stronger investment income, oil royalties and corporate income tax >>revenues have buoyed the Alberta government’s economic picture, >>reducing the province’s projected deficit to $4.3-billion. >> >>In its fiscal update in August, the government forecast the 2009-10 >>shortfall to rise to $6.9-billion from its initial budget projection >>of a $4.7-billion deficit." >> >> >>gas?? >>http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gBj6FQpRXrxsKovHU6JL9I0MUveQD9C5F1F80 >>"A fourth victim has died from injuries suffered in a natural gas >>explosion that tore through a North Carolina Slim Jim plant five >>months ago, a hospital spokesman said Monday. >> >>Curtis Ray Poppe, 55, died Thursday at the North Carolina Jaycee Burn >>Center in Chapel Hill, spokesman Tom Hughes said. An obituary posted >>by a Hickory funeral home said Poppe's family greeted friends there >>Sunday. >> >>Four critically burned victims were among the 71 who required hospital >>treatment after the June blast at the ConAgra Foods Inc. plant in >>Garner, said U.S. Chemical Safety Board lead investigator Don >>Holmstrom." >>... >> >>world wide deaths from nuclear plants in the last ten years... >> probably zero.... >>but be very scared of those rays!! >And just who are the biggest opponents of clean nuclear energy? >Why the left wing environmental movement of course. yeah, the watermelons why am i interested in the uninformed 'opinions' of idiots >http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x102714 > >http://wapedia.mobi/en/Anti-nuclear > >http://climateprogress.org/2009/11/07/david-frum-conservatives-heart-nuke-power/ i've no idea why you post those links...i've had a very quick look at them >Interesting that you are on the same side of the issue as Rush >Limbaugh and other conservatives. why is that 'surprising'? in what manner 'on the same side'? -- web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics energy, education, politics, etc over 1 million document calls in year past -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick. good people do nothing [] trust actions not words only when it's funny -- roger rabbit -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- == 4 of 5 == Date: Thurs, Nov 26 2009 3:18 pm From: First Post On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 00:00:49 +0100, abelard <abela...@abelard.org> wrote: >On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 16:49:43 -0600, First Post ><last_p...@lyingleftistsare.invalid> wrote: > >>On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 23:19:06 +0100, abelard <abela...@abelard.org> >>wrote: >> >>> >>>coal? why not... >>>oil? fine... >>>gas? why not.... >>> >>>but please no clean safe nuclear power >>> >>> >>>good job it's not a gallon of low level nuclear waste... >>> >>>roll up roll up...poor your arsenic and mercury into our river.... >>> >>>a million gallons of crud a day should be great.... >>> >>>good job the filthy fossil fuel industry gives obarmy 'donations' >>> >>> >>>25 nov 2009... >>>http://www.southernstudies.org/2009/11/tva-gets-ok-to-dump-more-toxic-coal-waste-into-ash-polluted-river.html >>>Last month the Tennessee Department of Environment and Conservation >>>(TDEC) granted TVA a permit under the Clean Water Act that will allow >>>the federal corporation to discharge wastewater polluted with toxic >>>arsenic, mercury and selenium into the river from the plant in Roane >>>County. The discharge will come from from a pond that will hold liquid >>>waste collected from a new air pollution scrubber. >>> >>>That permit is being challenged by three environmental advocacy groups >>>-- Earthjustice, the Environmental Integrity Project and the Sierra >>>Club. >>> >>>"The Clean Water Act requires TDEC to eliminate toxic discharges from >>>the Kingston plant," says EIP Attorney Lisa Widawsky. "Instead, >>>incredibly, TDEC is authorizing new discharges of toxic heavy metals >>>-- to the tune of one million gallons a day -- into the same river >>>devastated by the Kingston coal ash spill." >>>... >>>china's latest coal mine disaster kills 108 >>> >>>3 nov 2009 >>>http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5g4UPWd3x4z2btiEx4MYfl-BBA0Lw >>>"Monitoring the clean-up of a huge oil spill in pristine Australian >>>waters could take as long as seven years, an official said Wednesday >>>as environmentalists urged a wide-ranging inquiry into the disaster." >>> >>> >>>canada deelighted with one of the filthiest fossil fuel site on the >>>planet >>>http://www.canada.com/business/fp/Alberta+deficit+shrinks+billion/2272166/story.html >>>"Stronger investment income, oil royalties and corporate income tax >>>revenues have buoyed the Alberta government’s economic picture, >>>reducing the province’s projected deficit to $4.3-billion. >>> >>>In its fiscal update in August, the government forecast the 2009-10 >>>shortfall to rise to $6.9-billion from its initial budget projection >>>of a $4.7-billion deficit." >>> >>> >>>gas?? >>>http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gBj6FQpRXrxsKovHU6JL9I0MUveQD9C5F1F80 >>>"A fourth victim has died from injuries suffered in a natural gas >>>explosion that tore through a North Carolina Slim Jim plant five >>>months ago, a hospital spokesman said Monday. >>> >>>Curtis Ray Poppe, 55, died Thursday at the North Carolina Jaycee Burn >>>Center in Chapel Hill, spokesman Tom Hughes said. An obituary posted >>>by a Hickory funeral home said Poppe's family greeted friends there >>>Sunday. >>> >>>Four critically burned victims were among the 71 who required hospital >>>treatment after the June blast at the ConAgra Foods Inc. plant in >>>Garner, said U.S. Chemical Safety Board lead investigator Don >>>Holmstrom." >>>... >>> >>>world wide deaths from nuclear plants in the last ten years... >>> probably zero.... >>>but be very scared of those rays!! > >>And just who are the biggest opponents of clean nuclear energy? >>Why the left wing environmental movement of course. > >yeah, the watermelons >why am i interested in the uninformed 'opinions' of idiots > >>http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x102714 >> >>http://wapedia.mobi/en/Anti-nuclear >> >>http://climateprogress.org/2009/11/07/david-frum-conservatives-heart-nuke-power/ > >i've no idea why you post those links...i've had a very quick > look at them Just a few examples of who some of the more vocal opponents are. You, of all people, should know that on USENET it's always a good idea to post cites supporting any statements one makes. > >>Interesting that you are on the same side of the issue as Rush >>Limbaugh and other conservatives. > >why is that 'surprising'? > >in what manner 'on the same side'? Before "global warming" became fashionable Limbaugh and others have been proponents of clean nuclear energy for years. Way back when the issue was mere air pollution in general Limbaugh was preaching that the Europeans were leaving the US in the dust when it came to clean electrical power via Nuclear power plants and how the US needed to build more if we really wanted to cut down on the use of coal fired power plants. That pretty much places you on the same side of the issue as Limbaugh and a large portion of conservatives in regards to nuclear power. == 5 of 5 == Date: Thurs, Nov 26 2009 3:32 pm From: abelard On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 17:18:39 -0600, First Post <last_p...@lyingleftistsare.invalid> wrote: >On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 00:00:49 +0100, abelard <abela...@abelard.org> >wrote: >>i've no idea why you post those links...i've had a very quick >> look at them > >Just a few examples of who some of the more vocal opponents are. You, >of all people, should know that on USENET it's always a good idea to >post cites supporting any statements one makes. i'm not objecting...i was asking >>>Interesting that you are on the same side of the issue as Rush >>>Limbaugh and other conservatives. >> >>why is that 'surprising'? >> >>in what manner 'on the same side'? > >Before "global warming" became fashionable Limbaugh and others have >been proponents of clean nuclear energy for years. ok >Way back when the issue was mere air pollution in general Limbaugh was >preaching that the Europeans were leaving the US in the dust when it >came to clean electrical power via Nuclear power plants and how the US >needed to build more if we really wanted to cut down on the use of >coal fired power plants. ok >That pretty much places you on the same side of the issue as Limbaugh >and a large portion of conservatives in regards to nuclear power. ok...no problem with any of that... the problems with filthy fossil fuels go well being the hoohaa over agw... fff cause ginormous damage and they have been at the centre of wars for a century... they're not helping balance of payments... we're running out of them... the fff industry is dying....people just don't get it yet -- web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics energy, education, politics, etc over 1 million document calls in year past -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick. good people do nothing [] trust actions not words only when it's funny -- roger rabbit -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ============================================================================== TOPIC: The global-cooling cover-up http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.usa.misc/t/774d83f59f09d6dc?hl=en ============================================================================== == 1 of 1 == Date: Thurs, Nov 26 2009 11:49 pm From: "Devil's Advocate" http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/nov/27/the-global-cooling-cover- up/?feat=home_editorials EDITORIAL: The global-cooling cover-up By THE WASHINGTON TIMES The climate-gate revelations have exposed an unprecedented coordinated attempt by academics to distort research for political ends. Anyone interested in accurate science should be appalled at the manipulation of data "to hide the decline [in temperature]" and deletion of e-mail exchanges and data so as not to reveal information that would support global-warming skeptics. These hacks are not just guilty of bad science. In the United Kingdom, deleting e-mail messages to prevent their disclosure from a Freedom of Information Act request is a crime. The story has gotten worse since the global-cooling cover-up was exposed through a treasure trove of leaked e-mails a week ago. The Climatic Research Unit (CRU) of the University of East Anglia has been incredibly influential in the global-warming debate. The CRU claims the world's largest temperature data set, and its research and mathematical models form the basis of the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change's (IPCC) 2007 report. Professor Phil Jones, head of the CRU and contributing author to the United Nation's IPCC report chapter titled "Detection of Climate Change and Attribution of Causes," says he "accidentally" deleted some raw temperature data used to construct the aggregate temperature data CRU distributed. If you believe that, you're probably watching too many Al Gore videos. Mr. Jones is the same professor who warned that global-warming skeptics "have been after the CRU station data for years. If they ever hear there is a Freedom of Information Act now in the UK, I think I'll delete the file rather than send to anyone." Other revelations hit at the very core of the global-warming debate. The leaked e-mails indicate that the people at the CRU can't even figure out how their aggregate data was put together. CRU activists claimed that they took individual temperature readings at individual stations and averaged the information out to produce temperature readings over larger areas. One of the leaked documents states that their aggregation procedure "renders the station counts totally meaningless." The benefit: "So, we can have a proper result, but only by including a load of garbage!" Academics around the world who have spent years working on papers using this data must be in full panic mode. By the admission of the global- warming theocracy's own self-appointed experts, the data they have been using is simply "garbage." For global-warming advocates, there is an additional problem: The aggregated data appear to have been constructed to show an increase in temperatures. CBS' Declan McCullagh finds that the computer code contains programmer-written notes addressed to themselves or future people who will be working with the program. The notes include these revealing instructions: "Apply a VERY ARTIFICIAL correction for decline!!" and "Low pass filtering at century and longer time scales never gets rid of the trend - so eventually I start to scale down the 120-yr low pass time series to mimic the effect of removing/adding longer time scales!" The programmers apparently had to try at least a couple of adjustments before they could get their aggregated data to show an increase in temperatures. Other global-warming advocates privately acknowledge what they won't concede publicly, that temperature changes haven't been consistent with their models. Kevin E. Trenberth, head of the Climate Analysis Section at the National Center for Atmospheric Research and a prominent man- made-global-warming advocate, wrote in one of the discovered e-mails: "The fact is we can't account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can't." Still other e-mails document how global-warming advocates tried to silence academic journals and professors who questioned whether there is significant man-made global warming. We read and reread these CRU documents in stunned amazement. But rather than investigating all the evidence of so much academic fraud and intellectual wrongdoing, the University of East Anglia is denying there is a problem. Professor Trevor Davies, the school's pro vice chancellor for research, issued a defensive statement on Tuesday claiming: "The publication of a selection of the emails and data stolen from the Climatic Research Unit (CRU) has led to some questioning of the climate science research published by CRU and others. There is nothing in the stolen material which indicates that peer-reviewed publications by CRU, and others, on the nature of global warming and related climate change are not of the highest-quality of scientific investigation and interpretation." Unlike these global-warming propagandists, we expect research to be done in the open. Scientists who refuse to share their data, who plot to destroy information and fail to tell other scientists how their results were calculated should be severely punished. ============================================================================== You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "alt.politics.usa.misc" group. 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