----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Stirling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Ant Users List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2002 18:49 Subject: RE: Ant Perversions [was RE: Properties are causing problem in 1.5]
> Hi, > > > Cygwin is free and kinda lightweight; UNIX is everywhere. but ops hate adding more stuff to their boxes than they can, and if it aint a unix box, trying to get them to put cygwin on is trouble. Plus cygwin is troublesome too at times. It's when you're setting up the product's fully > automated cross-platform build/test/report/install, etc. cycle that > post-processes external tools' output, generates better email reports than > Ant's mail logger, configures and runs some MS tool, needs to be scheduled, > or set-up quickly and easily on multiple (UNIX and Windows) machines that I > start reaching for other tools in the bag. we use perl for this :) > The scheduling limitation is kind of a big one. There are Java scheduling > tools out there like Flux. Would that appropriate for scheduling builds > either from Ant or around Ant? How do others automate Ant builds in > cross-platform environments? Cron on UNIX/AT on WIndows? anthill, cruisecontrol. AT sucks. > Scott Stirling > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Martin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 7:29 PM > > To: Ant Users List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: Ant Perversions [was RE: Properties are causing problem in > > 1.5] > > > > > > Scott: > > I think you are forgetting why developers choose Ant consistently > > for their > > build environments... > > 1)it is truly portable..I can plunk my build.xml into a different > > development environment with no ill effect ..can you say the same > > for ANY of > > your platform specific tools..Can they read and adjust their environment > > completely based on > > a few property files and environment variables? > > 2)It is free..This makes ant available for all to use..Some IDE's > > have hiked > > their price > > from anywhere between 500-1000$ Why because they are incorporating free > > tools that you and I have used for free for years..Ants use of the > > exec/apply and java commands can call or execute the majority of > > these free > > tools without incurring the weight and slow speed of an IDE > > 3)It is lightweight..simply because a developer has the ability respecify > > Java_home and thus javac and java tools..How many tools have the > > ability to > > dynamically reconfigure itself to changing environment..Most tools I have > > seen are static in nature. > > 4)We have real techs working on Ant who use the product they are > > developing..this frees us developers from talking to annoying salespeople > > pushing IDEs that re slow and resource/memory hogs. > > I have just given you 4 good reasons for using Ant.. > > Can any of the tools you have mentioned claim to have ALL 4 of the > > aforementioned benefits..I know that make cant send mail, cant create > > javadoc and cannot create testcases and run them so the answer to the > > question is > > I doubt it.. > > -Martin > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Scott Stirling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Ant Users List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2002 9:37 PM > > Subject: Ant Perversions [was RE: Properties are causing problem in 1.5] > > > > > > > I've intentionally sensationalized the subject. Don't be offended. > > > > > > Why use Ant for things like telnet, VSS, .NET, looping scripts, > > etc.? I'm > > > all for Ant as a build tool and tool for general > > development-related Java > > > stuff like deploying apps or running command line, non-interactive, Java > > > tools. But Ant's lousy for working with interactive programs, > > controlling > > > GUIs, and anything requiring complex flow control logic. > > People in denial > > > of this fundamental truth will do anything to compensate for Ant's > > > limitations. > > > > > > I've found tools such as sed, grep, and expect, not to mention the > > benefits > > > of UNIX shell scripting, to be indispensable assistants to > > cross-platform > > > builds, whether it's for scheduling builds in a platform-neutral way, or > > > customizing reports output from 3rd party tools (like StarTeam diff), or > > > launching native OS tools like load test tools after a build is > > deployed. > > > My answer for platform portability (at least Win32 to UNIX) is Cygwin on > > > Windows and basic tools on UNIX. 90% or more of the builds are done in > > Ant, > > > but things like build scheduling, disk mounting, interactive stuff > > (telnet), > > > and post-processing text data in an automated way are done > > outside of Ant > > > where there are plenty of pre-Ant tools making this stuff fast > > and easy to > > > do. NOTE: I did ask on the sed-users for a Java version of sed > > and got no > > > reply -- an interesting idea for a Java open source opportunity, IMO). > > > > > > Some people want Ant to do everything (or want to do everything from > > within > > > Ant), in hopes of achieving portability perfection in a cross-platform > > > world, even at the expense of horrible hacks in custom tasks, > > or tying the > > > build to OS-specific tools through <apply/> or <exec/>. > > > > > > Is the sense of where to draw the line and admit Ant's limitations a > > matter > > > of taste? Experience? Laziness? Or what? > > > > > > Best, > > > Scott Stirling > > > > -- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
