At 07:46 PM 10/02/2014, you wrote:
Thanks Mike.
I agree with a lot of what you say. Non profit clubs do try to
pretend to be business. If you know of any for profit organisations
still in existence please advise because I will refer all requests
for "Joy Flights" there.
No I did not read your article at the link. I might do so now.
Yes we are loosing membership. I do not think GFA leadership is to
blame. They are responding to pressures imposed by CASA and in some
cases have resisted vigorously. I refer to the proposal that our
training glider ZEPHYRUS should not be used for training any
longer. A clear win for then GFA and common sense.
The Zephyrus case was interesting. There was no such thing as a
homebuilt aircraft back then although people had built gliders in the
late 40s and early 50s. When the regulator (then called DCA) insisted
after 1956 that gliders be certified to BCAR section S it meant that
whether you were building one or a thousand you had to go through the
same structural and aerodynamic justification and testing. Hence the
Zephyrus was done this way (and hence the distinct lack of amateur
built Australian glider designs after that time with one or two
exceptions). CASA may have a point in that it wasn't built under a
type certificate or in an approved factory under a production
certificate. Hence nowadays it would be a prototype and after
testing the only way it can continue to fly is under an Experimental
- Continued private operation of a prototype certificate. This
precludes flying training except for owners of the aircraft. The
alternative view is that it was certified under the rules of the day
when it was built and is a fully certified aircraft and hence flying
training of non owners is allowed. Supported by nearly 60 years of
safe operation. The normal rule is that if certified under the rules
at the time it is grandfathered and can continue to operate although
the EU, a few years ago banned DC3s from commercial operation
because they don't meet current rules (something to do with what
happens after an engine failure during the takeoff run amongst
others). Bastards.
I can assure you that there is no resisting vigorously by the GFA . I
have had a couple of email interchanges with the GFA Chairman of
Airworthiness. He is very happy to impose CASA like rules on glider
maintenance.He told me so in writing. BTW the CASA maintenance rules
for light aircraft are the EU airline ones basically. The ones that
have the Australian light aircraft maintenance industry up in arms.
I guess people will only start to take notice and begin to whine when
CASA imposes commercial licences and instructor ratings on gliding.
BTW when you take money for entry and send or publish rules you have
a contract. It cannot be unilaterally altered. Whether some of the
people working for the organisation which did this get paid or not is
entirely beside the point.
Mike
On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 8:24 PM, Mike Borgelt
<<mailto:mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com>mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com>
wrote:
No it isn't.
GFA employs people, some clubs employ people, glider and equipment
manufacturers try to run at a profit and employ people. Some gliding
operations (even in Australia) are privately owned and run for
profit. It is a business with customers. Some of the businesses are
disguised as non profit "clubs".
Did you bother to read the article at the link? I see certain
parallels to gliding.
The only power anyone has in gliding is to sufficiently piss people
off so they leave. Arriving at a contest having paid the entry fee,
organising time off (maybe buying or hiring a glider and having done
the training and practice to be able to fly at a contest - a huge investment)
and having been given a set of rules which you are happy enough to
live buy, only to have them changed at briefing on the first day,
seems to me to be a good way of ensuring that some won't turn up next year.
Unfortunately gliding in Australia has been VERY successful at
getting people to leave, hence the downsizing of the activity over
the last 30 years. Don't worry, there is more to come. The current
GFA "leadership", to use the term loosely, is bending over backwards to
ensure that those of you who get their gliders maintained by the
handful of commercial workshops will find that this is more
expensive and difficult than in the past, if indeed it is still
available to you. The GFA leadership in the airworthiness area is
particularly enthusiastic
about this.
Mike
At 06:02 PM 10/02/2014, you wrote:
Wrong analogy.
Gliding is a volunteer sport.
I am not trying to sell a product to anyone. I do not profit
personally, except some satisfaction if I introduce someone to
Gliding and they enjoy it sufficiently to stay on and take it
up. That unfortunately is rare.
I have no interest in helping anyone achieve their bucket
list. They can look for a commercial operator for that.
On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 5:29 PM, Mike Borgelt
<<mailto:mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com>
mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> wrote:
So you do a deal to buy a car of certain specifications, pay the
money and find on the delivery date the diesel you ordered is a
petrol and the colour which you specifically chose is not available
and the car in front of you is some other colour and if you
complain you are told to build your own if you don't like it?
There's an interesting thread on r.a.s. at the moment about the
California City soaring operation closing down which you might like
to read. Also by co-incidence Karl Denninger this morning has a
little story about the scuba diving industry in the US.
here:
<http://www.market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=228385>http://www.market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=228385
There may be some lessons here.
Mike
At 02:57 PM 10/02/2014, you wrote:
The Horsham Week competition is run by the pilots
themselves. They set the rules. I expect that the GFA guidelines
are respected. However the pilots can replace the scorer, if they
re not happy. Only problem is getting a volunteer to take on the job.
First to complain about some else is doing their job nominates them self.
Yours
Peter Champness
On Feb 10, 2014, at 12:12 PM, Simon Holding
<<mailto:shold...@hotmail.com>shold...@hotmail.com> wrote:
My understanding is that on day one of the contest, without
warning, the CD announced that the Scorer was only interested in
scoring according to Australian National rules, or was not
prepared to score the contest. It seems the pilots acceded to
this ultimatum, thus raising the spectre of duress.
I am curious whether this denial of natural justice is a modern
GFA interpretation of that doctrine, or, has it been ever thus in
gliding contests?
From:
<mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net>aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net
[ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of
Jo Pocklington
Sent: Monday, 10 February 2014 7:13 AM
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Cc: 'GGC Members'
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Horsham Week 2014
Traditionally, Horsham Week has been an entry level comp with
pilots required to nominate 3 flying days in advance to allow
sharing of a glider for the 8 days. The idea was to attract
beginner-pilots to share a club glider and compete against all
levels of pilots, up to international standard. For the record,
2014 Horsham Week was scored to new rules. Local Rules
(published Dec 13) included the usual: All scoring days will
attract 1000 points. This was rescinded at briefing on day one
resulting in 3 devalued days in 15m (882, 979, 612) and Open
(707, 893, 600) and 2 in Club (821, 600) and Std (882, 612). A
pilot who pre-nominated the subsequently-devalued days was
therefore disadvantaged, contrary to the spirit of Horsham Week.
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