Don't get me wrong Dims - I have a lot of high hopes for the JAX-RPC 2.0/JAXB 2.0 marriage.
I'm just wondering what Axis can productively do until they start dropping draft specs. I think all you realistically hope for is to shore up JAX-RPC 1.1/WS-I BP 1.0a support as best you can in Axis 1.x, and wait for JSR 224 to lead us to salvation. Sun led us into this mess with JAX-RPC 1.0 (in their defense, I don't think anybody truly foresaw WS-I) and I'm hoping they can lead us out. I don't think I've ever seen a technology get off on the one foot, call it wrong, and reinvent itself as quickly as SOAP technology has. -Jon -----Original Message----- From: Davanum Srinivas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 1:14 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Best Practices? Let's twist this discussion on its head.... - Is there a list of bugs hiding in there somewhere? (bug reports) - What would you do if you were to write/re-write parts of axis? (enhancements requests) If we can't create new bug reports / enchancements to tell axis developers how axis should behave in the future (1.2 Final) then all discussion is just water under the bridge. thanks, -- dims On Wed, 12 May 2004 12:12:44 -0500, Joe Plautz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Thanks for the advice! This is exactly what I've been looking for. > > It almost seems that people end up using Axis inspite of itself. But, it's > just too dang easy to get something up and running. I imagine JWS files have > lead many people astray with their simplicity. If all services could work > like them, plus using user defined objects/type with little to no > configuration. The world would be a fabulous place. > > I too have been not tying my service layer to my DAO layer. My reasons are > more personal preferrance then need. But, I can take my DAO and put it > behind something else with little changing except creating a new broker. > > -Joe > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Anderson Jonathan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:03 AM > Subject: RE: Best Practices? > > > I would venture to say that 80% of the complications and frustrations > > implementing interoperable (WS-I compliant Doc/Literal) SOAP web services > on > > Java platforms stem from the XML datatype to Java datatype binding > problem. > > > > If you take the time to learn W3C XML Schema, you'll see the problem: it's > > not an OO type system. Therefore modeling your data types in Java and > > expecting some automagic Java2WSDL utility to do all of the hard work to > > generate your XML schema is naive, and it is unfortunate that so many OO > > developers think this way. > > > > I've encountered several approaches for dealing with this problem with > > Axis - virtually all of them involve hand crafting your WSDL and XSD (with > a > > WSDL/XSD IDE, of course) and generating a Java type system using ***a > > particular Java XML binding engine***. Using Axis's internal XML binding > > engine is one of several options available to you. > > > > For more info on the XML binding problem in Java, I defer to Dennis > Sosnoski > > (www.sosnoski.com), a long-time XML deep thinker. He first turned me onto > > the XML data binding "problem" with his excellent articles (4 parts) on > the > > issues over at IBM developerWorks. > > > > http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/x-databdopt/index.html > > > > If you're trying to use Axis's internal XML binding engine, here's some > > advice: > > > > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=axis-user&m=107945370506044&w=2 > > > > We've since moved away from this approach, and are currently using Axis's > > Message Style services to pass the SOAP Request Body DOM straight to > Castor, > > which unmarshalls the XML into a Castor generated type system. We further > > introduced a broker pattern to abstract the SOAP messaging layer from our > > business layer, which currently is not tied to any XSD generated types. > > > > Axis Message Style Service Implementation -> > > Service Broker Layer (unmarshalls SOAP Request DOM via Castor, extracts > the > > necessary information from Castor types - literally traversing the graph's > > getters - to invoke Business Manager Layer, and catches Business > Exceptions > > and maps them to proper SOAP Faults using AxisFault)-> > > Business Manager Layer (not tied to XSD types, but rather pure Java > business > > domain types, invokes DAO layer as needed) -> > > DAO Layer (a Spring/Hibernate layer to manage persistence for business > > domain types) > > > > The problem here is definitely managing and translating between the two > type > > systems: Castor generated classes from XSD and non-generated Business > Domain > > classes. > > > > The alternative, however, is to just try to use the XSD generated type > > system and persist that directly. This is too big of a leap for us right > > now, as our business layer doesn't "think" in pure XSD type terms. You'll > > probably encounter this a lot given how much legacy functionality people > are > > trying to SOAP service enable. > > > > Bottom line: implementing a WS-I compliant SOAP service in Java is not a > > trivial thing. There are two types of people building Web Services in > Java: > > those who are extremely frustrated with the completely stupid state of the > > Java based Web Services world right now and yet still trying very hard to > do > > it right, and those who haven't grasped that world is in a completely > stupid > > state right now. > > > > -Jon > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Joe Plautz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:02 AM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: Best Practices? > > > > > > My first attemps have started with a WSDL/Schema then I generate > everything. > > I was able to find an example at W3.org and I just manipulate it to the > way > > I need it. I thought this to be the best way at the time because of > > interoperability. > > > > From what I've been finding thus far there are no "Standard" practices, > just > > "Accepted" practices. Starting with a class then using Java2WSDL and then > > WSDL2Java seems to be the most common. But, it almost seems that this was > > not the intention of the designers of Axis. Why use two steps when you can > > use one? Creating a WSDL from scratch seems like the intended way, but is > > not the most accepted way by the developers/users of Axis. Why write what > > you can generate? > > > > I know this isn't difficult earth shattering stuff, I'm just looking for > the > > best way of doing this. So, when I start working with other people to > create > > services, we're doing it the "right" way. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dorner Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 7:01 AM > > Subject: AW: Best Practices? > > > > > > You are right - if you will do a interoperable webservice > > that deal with other clients (.Net ...) its better to go from the > > wsdl. > > > > But when i use String, int and so on and i generate a wsdl by > > java2wsdl, I hope the wsdl i get, depends on the standard spec. > > for wsdl!???? > > > > So there should no problem to use the wsdl by other languages!??? > > > > Dont know how it looks with complex datatypes!???? > > > > Do you all write your own wsdl by hand???? > > > > Tomi > > > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > > Von: David Cunningham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 12. Mai 2004 13:14 > > An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Betreff: RE: Best Practices? > > > > > > I disagree, the right way is to start with your WSDL and schema files. If > > you want any hope of being WS-I compliant or using doc/literal this is > your > > best bet. As soon as you start with an interface, you start dealing Java > > types that do not correlate to schema types very well. For example, if you > > use: public List getStuff() or public String[] getStuff(), you will either > > generate a WSDL file that can't be parsed properly by other consumers > (.NET, > > Glue, etc) or be bound to Java collection types that have no chance of > being > > parsed properly by .Net (without a lot of hacking around). > > > > My recommendation, again personal preference, is always give thought to > the > > XML that is going across the wire and what you are trying to send/receive > > and in what structure. This is especially important when dealing with > > doc/literal since you are sending a single document over the wire. > > > > - david > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dorner Thomas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 2:03 AM > > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' > > Subject: AW: Best Practices? > > > > The right way is to write a interface which includes all the Methods your > > webservice should offer. > > > > Then you use java2wsdl to generate your wsdl. You have to correct your > > parameternames in your auto generated wsdl, cause the the params looks > like > > in0, in1, in2... . > > > > Then you use wsdl2java to generate your stub, locator, skeleton, impl and > > maybe a testclient. > > > > Now you can implement and deploy your Service by unsing the addtional > > generated .wsdd files. > > > > Hope this helps you > > > > Tomi > > > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > > Von: Joe Plautz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. Mai 2004 18:48 > > An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Betreff: Best Practices? > > > > > > I'm a newbie looking for guidance in creating WebServices with Axis. I've > > gone through the documentation backwards and forwards and have come up > with > > me own ways of doing things. I start with a WSDL that I create and use > > WSDL2Java to generate the code and go from there. What I'm looking for is > a > > best practices because I don't feel confident in the way I am going about > > it. > > > > Do most people start from a WSDL? Do people generate a WSDL from an > > interface and go from there? Do people just create a class and a WSDD > file? > > Or, do people use JWS files that accept a string and the string contains > xml > > formated text? > > > > If there are any sites that cover this information, please forward them on > > to me. > > > > Any help will be appreciated!!! > > > > Thanks, > > Joe Plautz > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > >
