The ring finger isn't demonic at all ;-). I have put online an example of the Dresden ms (S-C 25,7: Sarabande in Bb - Reich/248), where we can see in Silvius handwriting, that he used the ring finger for an arpeggio (last line). http://www.slweiss.de/RH_Dl248.jpg
1) It is necessary to work on the spreading of the fingers. There are examples, where index and middle finger have to been spread quite far. 2) Both are possible Best Markus On Mon, 8 Jan 2007 20:05:35 -0500, "Dale Young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Here are two examples of fingering technical issues that frequently present > themselves (and make my brain hurt): > 1) a three note chord or arpeggio, diapason (thumb obviously), third > course (index obviously), first string, second or (satanic) third finger? Do > we learn to split and gauge our index and second fingers (hard) or do we use > the natural separation in index/ ring to place the pluckers (easy but > suspect). How about first string with forth course, or fifth, or sixth. Our > fingers can certainly spread that wide. > 2) a four note arpeggio starting with thumb on a diapason. Do we then > alternate index, middle, index or index, middle, (demonic) ring finger? > Inquiring minds want, no, need to know. > Nerd de jour > Dale > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Markus Lutz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Barocklautenliste" <baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 7:51 AM > Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: 18th-century right hand fingering (short) > > > > On 08 Jan 2007 12:46 GMT, "Mathias R÷sel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > >> > Unquestionable it is important to think of the fingering and use them > >> > deliberately. > >> > It is very useful to study the way the fingers were used in French lute > >> > music (i.e. m -> strong, i -> weak). > >> > >> That's kind of a rule in renaissance music. In French baroque, it > >> isn't. > >> > > > > I wasn't aware of that, but I thought there still would be at least a > > tendency to that principle. > > > >> > But for instance the Weiss Bourree of S-C 25 in g minor has in the > >> > Dresden ms (246 in the Reich edition) some clear RH fingerings. > >> > At the beginning there is the rythm 1/8 1/8 1/4 (4th course 1st c. 1st > >> > c.). It begins with beat one - in any case a strong beat. > >> > SLWeiss indicates "i" (one point) at the beginning, so that you can > >> > play the notes on the 1st course "m i" or "m a" or "m m". > >> > >> I'm in doubt if that dot is a 1st finger sign, as the 1st finger dot is > >> usually put beneath or at the right of the letteer, as you can see in > >> measures 3 and 9 of the allemande. > >> > > > > I sometimes also wonder, if a point really means the index. It also could > > possibly be a staccato sign - but that doesn't make sense here. > > > >> If it is that 1st finger dot, though, it signifies the obvious. You > >> don't usually play an opening note on the 4th course with middle finger > >> and then quickly jump to the 1st course so as to play the following > >> quaver with the forefinger. > >> > > > > I wouldn't do that either - but one could do it, if one wants to stay with > > the principle of playing the m on heavier notes. > > > >> The interesting thing is, as you say, how the third note was intended to > >> be played. Ring finger or not ring finger that is the question: > >> - > >> ª---r-r-ª > >> ª .. ...ª > >> ª-------ª > >> ª ª > >> ª-------ª > >> ª ª > >> ª-r-----ª > >> ª . ª > >> ª-------ª > >> ª ª > >> ª-r-----ª > >> ª ª ª > >> > >> Unfortunately, the 2nd and 3rd notes aren't marked with dots, so we > >> won't know for sure. > >> > > > > You are right, we can't be sure of that. But I don't think that there > > would be something wrong with the ring finger. > > Unfortunately we don't have any detailed description, what the Weissian > > way of playing means regarding technique. > > > > Anyway the autograph fingerings of Weiss are very interesting, althought > > they can hardly be read sometimes. > > The instructions of Kniebandl are a slightly modified version of Le Sage, > > isn't it? > > > > Markus > > > > > > > > > >> Mathias > >> > >> > So on the strong beats in this Bourree the "weak" index would be used > >> > nearly throughtout. > >> > > >> > If Weiss still wanted to use "m" as strong finger, in my eyes it > >> > wouldn't have been difficult to play "m" on 4th c. and "i" "m" on the > >> > 1st c. - isn't it? > >> > > >> > You could say: He marked the exception from the rule. > >> > But with the same right I can say: He taught a pupil with these > >> > examples how to normally play these things. > >> > > >> > Anyway: the main point is to bring out the true nature of the melody > >> > and to try to express the affects that are given in the music. > >> > > >> > Best > >> > Markus > >> > >> > >> > >> To get on or off this list see list information at > >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > -- > > Markus Lutz > > Schulstr. 11 > > D-88422 Bad Buchau > > > > Tel: 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 > > Fax: 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 > > Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Markus Lutz Schulstr. 11 D-88422 Bad Buchau Tel: 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax: 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
