Hello Benjamin and others, there are many sources for ensemble playing with 11-course lute before and after 1700 (Bohemian-Austrian repertoire: Weichenberger, von Radolt, et others).
For continuo there are not that many direct sources, but I want to remind of "Fundamenta der Lauten Musique und zugleich der Composition", probably from Prague after 1700 - as Mathias Rösel has published it for the German lute society he can tell more details on it. It has many examples for written out basso continuo parts for d-minor lute. There is another source in a Vienna archive from the Harrach family (not included in Meyer ...), that has some pages of written out basso continuo passages. The other sources are indirect - that the lute in Germany also was used for singing (you can see that in the subtitle of many period song books) and ensemble playing etc. BTW one more hint: There is a big choral book in Krakau for d-minor lute, that also could be understood as set out basso continuo, if it is true that it uses the basses of the Freylinghausen choral book - it has more than 200 chorales set by Sciurus. I only know some of them in a Rust ms, but not yet compared them to Freylinghausen. Best regards Markus On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 11:59:09 , "Benjamin Narvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi Rob, > > Regarding the point of d-minor continuo in Italy, there is in fact other > documentation of its use apart from that of Weiss. There is a source *by an > Italian*, the theorist and composer Pier Francesco Valentini (1586-1654), > who discusses at some length d-minor continuo playing in his *Il leuto > anatomizzato ... nelle quale si dimostrano 12 diversi ordini di sonare et > intervolare trasportato nel leuto,* a very early source about d-minor > continuo written in 1642, only a few years after the tuning came out in > France itself. I didn't know about this source until after my article went > to print, and this could have added a lot of juicy nuance. This source, > written in Italian by an Italian for Italians, presumably attests to > a school of d-minor playing there. Also, if this was already happening in > 1642, how had this grown by Weiss's time a century later? > > This subject needs further exploration.... > > Does anyone on this list know anything more about this? > > BN > > > > > > > On the other hand, I have not managed to talk myself into definit > > ely > > choosing the German tuning on my 86cms theorbo, but I have the possibility > > > > of experimenting. And while it is OK to use an Italian instrument for > > German > > baroque music (it was definitely used, as Tim Burris has pointed out), it > > is > > less plausible using a German instrument on anything other than German > > music. Benjamin argues that Weiss's presence in Italy indicates that at > > least one player was using dm tuning, however it is not certain that Weiss > > had developed his 'sans chanterelle' tuning whilst there. If not, what was > > > > Weiss playing when sitting in with Scarlatti's orchestral band? Had the > > swan-necked so-called theorbo come into existence during Weiss's Italian > > trip, 1710-14? Seems a bit early to me. I'm sure someone reading this will > > > > know when swans flew in to the scene? So, if Weiss still just had his > > lute, > > was he playing continuo at all, and if he was, did he use an Italian-tuned > > instrument? And did the problems he encountered lead to his development of > > > > the German Continuo Theorbo when he got back to Germany? Or did he create > > it > > when in Rome? > > > > So, there are a lot of questions, and, as I say, I have not yet convinced > > myself one way or another. But one thought keeps bugging me: Weiss was by > > far the greatest composer for the baroque lute, and we know that he spent > > a > > lot of his time as a continuo player. We also know the tuning he used. > > Baron > > states that it is the common tuning of theorboes in Germany. So how many > > of > > us are actually doing it? Probably fewer than half a dozen... Almost like > > playing Dowland on guitars... > > > > www.rmguitar.info > > > > > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > -- Pfr. Markus Lutz Schulstr. 11 D-88422 Bad Buchau Tel.: 0 75 82 / 23 24 Fax: 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
