Hi Irv Thanks for the explanation, no problem, it just had me puzzled. It's a bit tickling though that you said it was me who should check his facts! Never mind, all is forgiven.
>My apologies. >There was a piece circulated to the jewish communities groups >proclaiming the british had removed "The study of the Hoocaust" from >the school corriculum and that action was hailed as a new or >continued rise of antisemitism, the author of the piece I sent you >called it a lie and as explained was the result of one teacher that >did the removal for his particular class study. > In the "biofuel..." at the same time, this debate on the holocaust >whether Jewish, German, Russian, czech, Moslem etc also surfaced, >led by those who opposed resettling of the european jews in the >middle east I don't think they did that exactly. >and tie the ills of that region to the jews and not to oil >exploitation and the rise of nationalism. Make it "as well as" rather than "not to". See eg.: http://www.tompaine.com/articles/oil_and_israel.php Oil and Israel Bob Dreyfuss , The Dreyfuss Report May 25, 2004 Also I don't think anyone has taken issue with the Jews, or at least I hope not. With colonial Zionism yes, and with the "Israel lobby" indeed, but growing numbers of Jews worldwide also take issue with that, including rabbis and many Israelis. You might read this previous post from a while back, in response to a list member who started calling people Nazis: http://snipurl.com/pg9x Re: [biofuel] Re: Oil and Israel I think what's been going on here this time round is rejection, or at least questioning, of the idea that Israel can do no wrong because of the Holocaust. Question Israel and you'll be smeared and labelled an anti-Semite, what nonsense. Very dangerous nonsense! Which Holocaust is that, the Palestinian Holocaust? Bob Dreyfuss says: "The two unmentionables about Iraq are suddenly getting mentioned. The real reasons for the attack on Iraq had nothing to do with WMDs, that ultimate red herring. The real reasons: oil and Israel." If Israel is unmentionable it's not possible to make much sense of what's going on in the Middle East, especially now, nor of energy politics in general. Hence this ongoing discussion here, and why as list owner I certainly won't put a stop to it, as some have demanded. After all it's me who started it, two years ago. The anti-Semite smear is often such a knee-jerk reaction anyway, without any thought to it. Since Bob posted Michael Santomauro's 29 questions about the Holocaust (which did not deny that it happened) several list members have unsubscribed, sending me furious emails saying things like "I am not interested in having Holocaust deniers emails showing up in my inbox" and so on - they didn't even read it, there hasn't been any Holocaust denial. We're well rid of them, IMHO, this is not the place for knee-jerk reactions. How about this one? "I don't think any of the holocaust survivors and their families would appreciate the fact that their suffering is being discussed on a forum that is dedicated to biofuel...or any other forum that involves the words gas, organic and/or alternative fuel, fertilizer, etc." Huh? That has to take the prize for missing the point. But if you disagree then you don't care about the victims or you hate Jews or something. Nuts. Holocausts are two a penny these days, we haven't even mentioned most of them yet. If we're talking of millions killed for no good reason, Iraq is a holocaust, Vietnam was another one, US military adventurism has claimed at least 8 million lives since WW2. This mainly to serve the interests of Big Business, neo-liberal economics, global corporatism. The much-hailed Green Revolution killed millions of people, and still is. Just to name one, the weedkiller paraquat kills at least 100,000 a year, with many more dying of chronic poisoning, for about 30 years now - 3 million. Bhopal (150,000, ongoing) was not an exception, it's the rule, business as usual. More than 5 million children die of hunger every year, in this world where there's more than enough for everyone. About 25,000 people die every day of hunger. Nearly 3 billion people live in hopeless, grinding poverty, through no fault of their own. And so on. We're living amid an ongoing global holocaust. It's not just an accident, an unfortunate side-effect or something. Life is cheap. But life is not cheap - as Fritz said, even one is too many. Life is sacred, all life is sacred. We need a little more focus on these issues. In this context especially, the disgraceful use of the Jewish Holocaust by colonial Israel and its US lobby as a taboo, as a weapon to silence its critics and as a cover-up of a major ongoing atrocity simply has to stop. It's happening now, at last. Just from today, eg.: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18506.htm Dissenting at your own risk, Cecilie Surasky (of Oakland-based Jewish Voice for Peace), 10/04/07 "ICH " "Last year, I agreed to speak to a Jewish youth group about my organization, Jewish Voice for Peace, and our opposition to Israel's occupation. My talk was to follow one from a member of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, which calls itself "America's pro-Israel Lobby." "A week before, a shaken program leader said the AIPAC staffer had threatened to get the entire youth program's funding canceled if I was allowed in the door. The threat worked, and in disgust, they canceled the whole talk. ... " See MuzzleWatch - "Tracking efforts to stifle open debate about US-Israeli foreign policy": http://www.muzzlewatch.org/ "Archbishop Tutu barred by U. of St Thomas because of criticism of Israel". Desmond Tutu is an anti-Semite??? That's what they say. LOL! Okay, so it's not funny. But you might as well say he's a white supremicist, that'd be just as insane. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18504.htm Two Knights and a Dragon, Uri Avnery (head of the Israeli peace movement "Gush Shalom") 10/04/07 "ICH" These are good articles, I'll post them both separately. >I guess I confused the issues and responded to youse guys, and not >to those that exploit information whenever antisemitism appears in >order to cut the hatred and cool those people down. >I'm sorry for the confusion, I caused. It's okay, all is well. All best Keith >Irv > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Sent: Oct 4, 2007 12:23 PM > >To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org > >Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Holocaust not study lie > > > >Hello Irv > > > >I'm afraid I don't know what you're referring to. I didn't say > >Holocaust studies were removed from the UK curriculum, nor any > >curriculum, in this or the previous thread on this subject, I don't > >know anything about the UK curriculum. The Telegraph review of > >MacDonogh's book that I posted doesn't refer to it either. Sunic's > >piece that Bob posted also doesn't refer to it, or not that I saw. > >And there isn't anything immediately below your signature, as > >promised. So I'm baffled. Please provide a full reference and quote > >the text you're referring to. > > > >Best > > > >Keith > > > > > > > >> Kieth > >>There is an old British expression to the effect that "one should > >>call 'tripe' when tripe is served." Part of the email sent , is in > >>fact tripe, i.e. incorrect. The fact is that Holocaust studies was > >>not removed from the UK curriculum. It is a rumor, prompted by the > >>decision of a teacher in a single UK school not to teach the subject > >>as part of its curriculum. (see the detailed explanation below) > >> > >>May I suggest that those interested in checking this out further, go > >>to www.boycottwatch.org/misc/UK-Holocaust.htm > >>An extract from what you'll see appears immediately below my signature. > >> > >>I have suggested in the past, and repeat it now, that one should > >>check out the veracity of anything that they are asked to circulate > >>to others. > >> > >> > >>PS: GCSE refers to a pre-graduation examination that determines a > >>student has satisfactorily completed high school. > >>irv > >> > >>-----Original Message----- > >> >From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> >Sent: Oct 3, 2007 9:43 PM > >> >To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org > >> >Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The unspoken Holocaust > >> > > >> >Hi Bob > >> > > >> >>Hi all, > >> >> Back again, asking more questions. Read only the last > >> >>paragraph if the rest enrages you. Shouldn't I just shut up? > >> > > >> >:-) Only if you want to. > >> > <snip> _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
