As Dave may remember from his days skirmishing with dog walkers at
Treman Marina, the City neither owns nor controls what happens offshore
in Cayuga Lake. The lake bottom, and what happens above it, is
regulated solely by the state of NY. (Unlike most bodies of water in
NYS, both Cayuga and Seneca Lakes, including the lake bottoms, are owned
by the state.) This which is why if you want to build a dock or boat
house over the lake, for example, you have to get permission from the
State in addition to regular building permits. So while the City can
control who carries guns in Stewart Park, it can't keep someone from
having a gun if s/he is standing in the lake itself. The Ithaca City
Court recognized the limits of the city's power when it held the city
could not ticket off leash dogs swimming in the lake at Treman Marina:
while the city has a law against off leash dogs, as does the state park
system, the state itself does not and it is NYS that regulates the
lake. Similarly, the city can prohibit someone from landing a boat at
Stewart Park, but unless there is some state law giving it the power to
do so, it cannot prohibit one from approaching, regardless of what the
statute says. Finally, FWIW, Treman Marina is located geographically
within the city but as state park land, it is not subject to city laws -
the state park laws and state laws regulate what is permissible there.
Best -
Alicia
On 12/31/2013 12:32 PM, Linda Orkin wrote:
> It will come as no surprise that I would be very willing to work with
> others to enact out existing statutes regarding this. This is great
> information Dave and thank you.
>
> You will be sorely missed tomorrow.
>
> Linda
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 31, 2013, at 11:46 AM, Dave Nutter <nutter.d...@me.com
> <mailto:nutter.d...@me.com>> wrote:
>
>> I support keeping New Year's Day for the Ithaca count, despite the
>> difficulty in explaining to people why our Christmas Bird Count is on
>> the wrong holiday. The reasons have to do with data, birds, and
>> people, and an alternative solution.
>>
>> The Ithaca count has a long tradition of being on this date starting
>> with Doc Allen, so our records are likely more valuable for
>> consistency than most counts, many of which vary by several days
>> between years as they try to use (and conflict with one another) on
>> weekend days. Being late in the 3-week window for counts, our count
>> may also give a better picture of winter bird numbers. As climate
>> change occurs it's even more important to have data which is taken
>> consistently from year to year. Yes, the disruption of waterfowl in
>> the past several years has been significant, and should be noted in
>> the records for those using waterfowl data, but the Christmas Bird
>> Count is not just of water birds and not just on the lake. Sorry,
>> Ken, that your job has been made more difficult as Stewart Park
>> counter. I'd like to try to change the situation in the City (more
>> below).
>>
>> On the human side, I think having the count on this secular holiday
>> is both good for getting a large and consistent turn-out of counters
>> (I think I am an exception in that I work Wednesdays regardless so I
>> won't be counting this year.), it is appropriately celebrated by
>> birders as we start our year lists. Of course always want more
>> counters because we have higher standards for coverage than most
>> counts, and we always miss the great birders who migrate away
>> according to the academic calendar, but I don't think we are likely
>> to get more college folks participating unless we move the date to
>> the very earliest end (with maximum data screw-up), and meanwhile any
>> change from New Year's Day will lose a bunch of regular counters.
>>
>> About gunning season, from what I have just read in the resources
>> which others have supplied to this listserv (thank-you!), I think the
>> feds set the start and end date, as well as the maximum number of
>> days in between which may be open, while the states decide which
>> calendar days will be open. The state is nominally open to input, but
>> (again looking at those resources) clearly is interested mainly
>> (only?) in the views of those wanting maximum shooting opportunities,
>> so the state makes a big effort to include as many weekends and
>> holidays as possible, which of course are also the times when those
>> of us who are not killing things or endangering anyone also have the
>> most free time to be out, so the conflicts are maximized. We could
>> try, but I think it would be difficult to get a holiday from shooting
>> on New Year's Day. It's another question whether it's possible to
>> reason with the particular individuals who are so intent on killing
>> birds at the south end of Cayuga Lake that it appears to me they are
>> willing to break various rules.
>>
>> Regarding the City of Ithaca, in 1994 it rescinded the lake hunting
>> whose start was bemoaned in the historic newspaper column which Jane
>> Graves posted on the club website and which Linda Orkin just sent
>> out. Nowadays, shooting in the City is simply banned except for self
>> defense, police purposes, funeral services, and at supervised indoor
>> ranges, according to the City Code, Chapter 219, section 1. And
>> according to 219-2, "No person shall hunt, pursue or kill with a gun
>> or firearm any wild animals, fowl or birds or engage in hunting
>> within the city."
>>
>> What many people don't realize, though, is that the City of Ithaca
>> includes not just the southern shoreline of Cayuga Lake (all of Allen
>> H. Treman State Marine Park west to NYS-89, all of Stewart Park, and
>> both the lighthouses), but the City of Ithaca also includes the lake
>> itself all the way to the western shore as far north as #883
>> Taughannock Boulevard, and south of an east-west line which extends
>> almost to the shore just north of #940 East Shore Drive, the
>> northernmost of the first group of houses. Only a tiny strip of east
>> shoreline water from the Chamber of Commerce Visitor Center north
>> past those houses is outside the City of Ithaca. Thus a piece of the
>> lake which would serve resting waterfowl very well happens to be
>> within City limits. To see for yourself, zoom in on this map:
>> http://geo.tompkins-co.org/html/?viewer=tcpropmo
>>
>> Furthermore, Stewart Park, which has additional protections, extends
>> north to that limit. According to the City Code 336-10, Stewart Park
>> extends "...down Fall Creek to its mouth; thence north to the north
>> City line; thence east along the north City line to the west line of
>> Lake Road; thence south along the west line of Lake Road to the
>> northwest line of State Route 13..." And within Stewart Park
>> according to 336-22, "No person shall carry, transport or possess any
>> firearm of any nature in the park, but this section shall not apply
>> to duly constituted peace officers." And the guys moored to the trees
>> by the swan pond are prohibited by 336-19: "Except in the event of an
>> emergency, no motorboat shall land at the beach in the [Stewart]
>> park, nor shall any motorboat approach close to any such beach."
>>
>> We don't need the DEC to change its calendar, nor to change our count
>> date, we just need respect for existing laws.
>> --Dave Nutter
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