I don't fully understand the cynicism in the response, unless it is simply the outpouring from years of painstaking review work for no monetary reward in a very broken publication system. Everybody I have talked to thinks the system is terrible, and various solutions have been proposed. One of these is, believe it or not, what I suggested, which is to pay reviewers. It is a huge amount of work, if one has a conscience about it, and the number of people with the expertise and experience required for this type of work is exceedingly small. Further, a real review of a paper takes significantly more than 2 hours of work, depending on the type of paper (I think you were joking about 2 h, but not totally sure). What really kills me is that the publishing houses are making money hand over fist, and this because they know that they can get very cooperative scientists (G-d bless them) to do huge amounts of work for free. It is really scandalous, and I am not sure why we scientists go along with it. To put it bluntly: we are being exploited by the journals; why not do something about it? I am sure that the journals will not be overjoyed to release their grip on the profits, but that should not stop us.
JPK +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Jacob Pearson Keller Research Scientist / Looger Lab HHMI Janelia Research Campus 19700 Helix Dr, Ashburn, VA 20147 Desk: (571)209-4000 x3159 Cell: (301)592-7004 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The content of this email is confidential and intended for the recipient specified in message only. It is strictly forbidden to share any part of this message with any third party, without a written consent of the sender. If you received this message by mistake, please reply to this message and follow with its deletion, so that we can ensure such a mistake does not occur in the future. -----Original Message----- From: CCP4 bulletin board [mailto:CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On Behalf Of Hughes, Jon Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2018 6:13 AM To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Subject: [ccp4bb] AW: [ccp4bb] [ccp4bb] Oxford University Press great idea! 2 hours at €200 per hour makes €1000 - sounds like an eminently reasonable starting point for negotiations. if the publishers don't like our price, they can do the reviewing themselves - and after a while no one will bother to buy the resulting rubbish anyhow! in the mean time we put our stuff online directly (without wasting our time, for example, still formatting reference lists in the 21st century!). we have them over a barrel. the only problem i see is how to get grants without papers in Nature. anyone have a solution to that one? one final aspect is: who gets the money? surely the universities etc. should get it, not us: the taxpayer pays us already. best, jon -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: CCP4 bulletin board [mailto:CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK] Im Auftrag von Keller, Jacob Gesendet: Samstag, 30. Juni 2018 00:00 An: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Betreff: Re: [ccp4bb] [ccp4bb] Oxford University Press The one I don't get is why not pay reviewers? $1000 per review? If you look at publishers' profit margins, you will see that they can afford it. I actually think the scientific community should go on a "review strike" until reviewers get paid. JPK +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Jacob Pearson Keller Research Scientist / Looger Lab HHMI Janelia Research Campus 19700 Helix Dr, Ashburn, VA 20147 Desk: (571)209-4000 x3159 Cell: (301)592-7004 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The content of this email is confidential and intended for the recipient specified in message only. It is strictly forbidden to share any part of this message with any third party, without a written consent of the sender. If you received this message by mistake, please reply to this message and follow with its deletion, so that we can ensure such a mistake does not occur in the future. -----Original Message----- From: CCP4 bulletin board [mailto:CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On Behalf Of Petr Leiman Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 4:47 PM To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] [ccp4bb] Oxford University Press Indeed! Scientists in the Soviet Bloc got paid for publishing their scientific papers (and maybe for citations as well - not sure about that one)! We need to change the current system! Although these changes could be accompanied by many other pleasant virtues of the Soviet regime. Petr > On Jun 29, 2018, at 8:11 AM, Hughes, Jon <jon.hug...@bot3.bio.uni-giessen.de> > wrote: > > whose paper? our universities pay subscriptions for these journals and we > even pay on top of that for the pages of our publications (even when they're > not actually printed!), whilst we review papers for free! sounds like a > well-validated way to use taxpayers' money to keep the expensive company cars > etc. nice and shiny. why don't universities just require reimbursement for > the time we invest to insure that the merchandise is up to standard? €100 per > hour would be cheap. seems to me as though some capitalists need to add a few > lines to their balance sheets.... > best, jon > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > Von: CCP4 bulletin board [mailto:CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK] Im Auftrag von > Robbie Joosten > Gesendet: Freitag, 29. Juni 2018 13:42 > An: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK > Betreff: Re: [ccp4bb] Oxford University Press > > Yes, but think of all the money they miss due to your pirating of their paper > ;) It's the typical discussion about whether piracy of copyrighted material > leads to loss or gain of revenue. There are a lot of models here, but not > necessarily well-validated. > > Anyway, if people want to read your papers and cannot get them from > ResearchGate, I'm sure they can find them on another online > collection, a hub of some sort ;) > > Cheers, > Robbie > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bernhard Rupp [mailto:hofkristall...@gmail.com] >> Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 13:23 >> To: 'Robbie Joosten'; CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK >> Subject: RE: [ccp4bb] Oxford University Press >> >> Agreed, but for 10 years old papers this seems a bit of overkill.... >> >> >> >> From: CCP4 bulletin board <CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK> On Behalf Of Robbie >> Joosten >> Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 12:11 >> To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK >> Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] Oxford University Press >> >> >> >> Were they open access papers? If they were, than OUP is being too >> aggressive (IMO), but otherwise it makes sense. I also find the >> ResearchGate is rather aggressive in bugging you to upload papers >> that are readily available from the publisher. The whole business bit >> in scientific publishing is a necessary (?) evil, but I guess if >> given the choice one should publish somewhere where you as an author retain >> copyright. >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Robbie >> >> >> >> From: CCP4 bulletin board [mailto:CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On Behalf Of >> Bernhard Rupp >> Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 11:42 >> To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK >> Subject: [ccp4bb] Oxford University Press >> >> >> >> Hi Fellows, >> >> >> >> just an advisory that Oxford University Press is pretty aggressive in >> >> enforcing copyright - I had to remove 2 Bioinformatics papers >> >> from ResearchGate. >> >> >> >> Fortunately, authors have choices, too.... >> >> >> >> Cheers, BR >> >> ------------------------------------------------------ >> >> Bernhard Rupp >> >> http://www.hofkristallamt.org/ >> >> b...@hofkristallamt.org >> >> +1 925 209 7429 >> >> +43 676 571 0536 >> >> ------------------------------------------------------ >> >> Many plausible ideas vanish >> >> at the presence of thought >> >> ------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: >> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: >> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 > > ###################################################################### > ## > > To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: > https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 > > ###################################################################### > ## > > To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: > https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1 ######################################################################## To unsubscribe from the CCP4BB list, click the following link: https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=CCP4BB&A=1
