What could possibly go wrong?
-James Holton
MAD Scientist
On 6/29/2020 6:17 PM, Edward A. Berry wrote:
Now can we get rid of all the superfluous disks in our RAID? Or at
least not replace them when they fail?
On 06/29/2020 06:24 PM, Andreas Förster wrote:
I like to think that the reflections I carefully measured at high
multiplicity are not redundant, which the dictionary on my computer
defines as "not or no longer needed or useful; superfluous" and the
American Heritage Dictionary as "exceeding what is necessary or
natural; superfluous" and "needlessly repetitive; verbose".
Please don't use the term Needless repetitivity in your Table 1. It
sends the wrong message. Multiplicity is good.
All best.
Andreas
On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 12:03 AM James Holton <jmhol...@lbl.gov
<mailto:jmhol...@lbl.gov>> wrote:
I have found that the use of "redundancy" vs "multiplicity"
correlates very well with the speaker's favorite processing
software. The Denzo/HKL program scalepack outputs "redundancy",
whereas scala/aimless and other more Europe-centric programs output
"multiplicity".
At least it is not as bad as "intensity", which is so ambiguous
as to be almost useless as a word on its own.
-James Holton
MAD Scientist
On 6/24/2020 10:27 AM, Bernhard Rupp wrote:
> Oh, and some of us prefer the word 'multiplicity' ;-0____
Hmmm…maybe not. ‘Multiplicity’ in crystallography is context
sensitive, and not uniquely defined. It can refer to ____
1. the position multiplicity (number of equivalent sites per
unit cell, aka Wyckoff-Multiplicity), the only (!) cif use of
multiplicity____
2. the multiplicity of the reflection, which means the
superposition of reflections with the same /d/ (mostly powder
diffraction) ____
3. the multiplicity of observations, aka redundancy.____
While (a) and (b) are clearly defined, (c) is an arbitrary
experimental number.____
How from (a) real space symmetry follows (b) in reciprocal space
(including the epsilon zones, another ‘multiplicity’) is explained
here ____
https://scripts.iucr.org/cgi-bin/paper?a14080
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://scripts.iucr.org/cgi-bin/paper?a14080__;!!GobTDDpD7A!Z-SrnEqSZwQOXWOwbMCkZ1GB3fvdFuQ5lzYUYwQdUVTCALc3j9O3xqX7-s72_nF7$>
____
and also on page 306 in BMC.____
Too much multiplicity might create duplicity… ____
Cheers, BR____
__ __
Jon Cooper____
__ __
On 23 Jun 2020 22:04, "Peat, Tom (Manufacturing, Parkville)"
<tom.p...@csiro.au <mailto:tom.p...@csiro.au>> wrote:____
I would just like to point out that for those of us who have
worked too many times with P1 or P21 that even 360 degrees will not
give you 'super' anomalous differences. ____
I'm not a minimalist when it comes to data- redundancy is a
good thing to have. ____
cheers, tom ____
__ __
Tom Peat
Proteins Group
Biomedical Program, CSIRO
343 Royal Parade
Parkville, VIC, 3052
+613 9662 7304
+614 57 539 419
tom.p...@csiro.au <mailto:tom.p...@csiro.au> ____
__ __
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*From:*CCP4 bulletin board <CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK
<mailto:CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK>> on behalf of
00000c2488af9525-dmarc-requ...@jiscmail.ac.uk
<mailto:00000c2488af9525-dmarc-requ...@jiscmail.ac.uk>
<00000c2488af9525-dmarc-requ...@jiscmail.ac.uk
<mailto:00000c2488af9525-dmarc-requ...@jiscmail.ac.uk>>
*Sent:* Wednesday, June 24, 2020 1:10 AM
*To:* CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK <mailto:CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK>
<CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK <mailto:CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK>>
*Subject:* Re: [ccp4bb] number of frames to get a full
dataset? ____
____
Someone told me there is a cubic space group where you can
get away with something like 11 degrees of data. It would be
interesting if that's correct. These minimum ranges for data
collection rely on the crystal being pre-oriented, which is
unheard-of these days, although they can help if someone is nagging
you to get off the beam line or if your diffraction fades quickly.
Going for 180 degrees always makes sense for a well-behaved crystal,
or 360 degrees if you want super anomalous differences. Hope this
helps a bit. ____
Jon Cooper____
__ __
On 23 Jun 2020 07:29, Andreas Förster
<andreas.foers...@dectris.com <mailto:andreas.foers...@dectris.com>>
wrote:____
Hi Murpholino,____
__ __
in my opinion (*), the question is neither number of
frames nor degrees. The only thing that matters to your crystal is
dose. How many photons does your crystal take before it dies?
Consequently, the question to ask is How best to use photons. Some
people have done exactly that.____
https://doi.org/10.1107/S2059798319003528
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://doi.org/10.1107/S2059798319003528__;!!GobTDDpD7A!Z-SrnEqSZwQOXWOwbMCkZ1GB3fvdFuQ5lzYUYwQdUVTCALc3j9O3xqX7-hiQXkxe$>____
All best.____
__ __
__ __
Andreas____
__ __
__ __
(*) Disclaimer: I benefit when you use PILATUS or EIGER
- but I want you to use them to your advantage.____
__ __
__ __
__ __
On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 12:04 AM Murpholino Peligro
<murpholi...@gmail.com <mailto:murpholi...@gmail.com>> wrote:____
Hi.
Quick question...____
I have seen *somewhere* that to get a 'full dataset
we need to collect n frames':____
at least 180 frames if symmetry is X____
at least 90 frames if symmetry is Y____
at least 45 frames if symmetry is Z____
Can somebody point where is *somewhere*? ____
__ __
...also...____
what other factors can change n... besides symmetry
and radiation damage?____
__ __
Thanks____
__ __
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