Am 23.05.2010 um 15:12 schrieb Martijn van Dongen:
Nikolaus,
I agree you should first play with something that is available.
The information I got is from eurocircuit.com,
The price is based on 4 layer 150 * 60 mm; just a wild guess of the
size and layers based on standard technology, but giving an
indication.
More about the possibilities can be read in http://www.eurocircuits.com/images/stories/ec09/ec-services-leaflet-uk-english-4-2010-v2.pdf
. I did not check any guidelines and requirements, so hard to say
what suits. If somebody could provide more detailed information or
point in a direction, a more serious price could be obtained.
Ok, I see. They are a pooling supplier like others (pcb-pool,
multipcb, etc.), but unfortunately such a project is well outside
their offer.
Just to mention some more or less important differences (I have not
looked into all of them):
* PCB thickness - 1.0 mm (or it will not fit into the Freerunner case)
* 8 layers needed (or we can't connect all the many pins of the OMAP
BGA)
* stacked/filled Microvias (this is something like a minimum drill of
0.1 mm)
* 0.1 mm wire width
* etching and stop mask printing precision good enough for <0.3 mm SMD
pads (BGA pitch is 0.4 mm)
We have done some analyses and none of the online-pcb-shops can
provide this. Therefore we asked several manufacturers by e-mail and
most declined because they can't handle micro-vias. Some could do it
but they said that our requirements drive PCBs cost up to factor 10. I
don't know how the OpenPandora solved this (but they have produced
4000 boards so the cost may come down through to large volume). And, I
don't know how the BeagleBoard project solved this. But I have read
somewhere that they have only 6 layers (not using all features of the
OMAP) and 3000 units per batch. Maybe, someone has also sponsored the
prototyping phase where you have to produce boards at 500 EUR each.
And then you find one misplaced connection or component :(
For the Openmoko Beagle Hybrid we have just 2 layers (but no OMAP on
board). So cost is much lower and comes into the range you have found.
But we will add some margin to cover our development and prototyping
cost.
So that is the status as of today. If we can find a design that has
big enough demand, we can bring down cost of PCBs to be insignificant
(but only if we don't change the PCB design every now and then).
This finally will lead to the question how many of us want to own such
a new OMAP based motherboard for the Freerunner... But I think we are
too early to really pose this question since for solid market
research, one has to present at least a full concept (complete feature
list and target price).
BR,
Nikolaus
Regards,
Martijn
2010/5/21 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller <h...@goldelico.com>
Yes,
this all can be considered for a future version.
What we wanted to start with is something that just works, is easily
available, can be used for experimenting and software development
and is not too costly. A nice case, a new PCB for the OMAP processor
or using the Gumstix makes things much more expensive.
@Yocto: what has to be considered is that the Gumstix does not fit
into a Freerunner case (it is still too large/thick).
@ Martijn: the OMAP BGA poses high level requirements for a new PCB.
So I would be surprised if one can really get such PCBs for 15 € @
50 units. But do you have more information? What have been your
assumptions about # of layers, min. drill size, min. width etc.?
Nikolaus
Am 21.05.2010 um 15:48 schrieb Yocto:
> I haven't seen a discussion about redesign of the board, the
design files (schematics in Orcad) are available, so you can
downsize the connectors used and fit it in an existing casing.
Could we, also, consider the option of using a "smaller" board like
the Gumstix Overo ?
OMAP3503 with ARM Cortex-A8 at 600MHz
256MB RAM / 256MB Flash
[ 17mm x 58mm x 4.2mm ].
http://www.gumstix.com
Regards,
// Yocto
----- Original Message -----
From: Martijn van Dongen
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: Openmoko Beagle Hybrid
Hi,
First of all: nice project, could be a nice follow up for the
freerunner.
I have been looking at the discussions a little bit. Main
discussion is how to make a new casing that fits around the beagle
board, how to produce and what it costs.
I haven't seen a discussion about redesign of the board, the design
files (schematics in Orcad) are available, so you can downsize the
connectors used and fit it in an existing casing. I have a price of
a PCB (without parts) at low volumes (50 pieces) at less than €15.
Assembly of low quantitiy boards will be very expensive (make it
double the components price), so a DIY project for assembly of the
boards will make the PCB fit for a reasonable price.
Regards,
Martijn
2010/5/11 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller <h...@computer.org>
There is now a new Wiki page for the project:
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_Beagle_Hybrid
I have received some questions why we did not put all this into a
nice
design. The main reason is that we can't redesign the Beagleboard (it
has fixed dimensions) and we can't afford to build plastic injection
moulds (if someone has an idea how to reduce cost this is very
welcome). So the easiest solution was to combine what we have: a
given
Beagleboard and the Freerunner case.
Other questions were what one could do with this. Here some ideas
(not
assuming it is complete - you may have more and it is a platform for
your creativity):
• experimenting with touchscreen and new user interfaces on
Beagleboard
• learn how the OMAP3530 CPU works
• make it a truly open mobile application development
platform by
adding a battery pack and a UMTS usb stick
• investigate how an Openmoko with UMTS and OMAP3530 feels
(not from
haptics but screen operation and UMTS speed)
• porting SHR, QtMoko, Android, etc. to ARM-Cortex A8
And here some feature list:
• PCB that fits into Freerunner case (top cover and middle
part after
cutting a hole)
• works also without such a case (except speakers and earset)
• Toppoly LCM interface (same display as used in the
Freerunner -
otherwise it would not fit into the case)
• TSC2007 touch screen controller
• Microphone
• Earset and Speaker connector (for those sitting in the
Freerunner
case)
• 2 buttons (AUX and Power)
• 2 dual color LEDs (in the AUX and Power buttons)
• vibracall driver
• headset jack to connect microphone, earset and speaker
For the software, we have to rearrange the code on our server a
little
and then it will be made public.
Finally, here you can do preorders:
http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Openmoko%20Beagle
Nikolaus
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