Thanks Diann, and Richard and Ken!
For starters, you have provided the information we need to prompt more
research before ordering the supplies on line! I most definitely appreach
the precautions and insights and ideas.
Our tomatoes are currently under a small hoop system (about 4 feet tall).
Our growing season starts June 15, and by the end of August, the night time
lows drop into the 40s and doesn't come up again until next summer. Our
Tomato Team is constantly trying to get more red tomatoes, but I admit to
being perfectly happy with tomatoes that have turned a bit, and ripening
them myself in the house.
Would you consider the high hoop house to be more cost and trouble, with
very little additional gain to a small hoop system?
Perhaps we can improve on the design of the small hoop house instead, rather
than leap up to the larger model when we are short on cash.
Also, this is a bit of a segue and matter of curiosity. I heard that manure
can be used as a heating source for at least small frames. I wondered if an
airflow or waterflow system through a pile of manure could be used to heat a
larger space? We have a lot of manure on this working farm!
Again, thank you.
Jama Crawford
Shared Harvest Community Garden
Durango CO
----- Original Message -----
From: "Diann Dirks" <didi...@comcast.net>
To: "Richard Menn" <rtm...@verizon.net>; "Jama Crawford" <j...@frontier.net>
Cc: <community_garden@list.communitygarden.org>
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: [Community_garden] cost of hoop house
More on hoop houses.
Basic hoop houses can be made of pvc pipe and heavy plastic sheeting.
Benches can be made of rolling fence stock set on cinder block and 2x4s to
get them off the ground (the coldest area). If you are using the hoop
house to replace the nursery aspect and save your $3000 in commercial
space, this might be your best bet. By starting out cheap and using the
savings from those commercial space expenses, by the second and third year
you would have saved enough to build some commercial houses one at a time.
I'll bet someone in your group could put together a fan on a thermostat
mid-way through the house to keep the air moving.
My friend put a metal 55 gal. drum stove together for the cost of some
welding. He burnt scrap wood and newspaper (any home town newspaper has
bins of undelivered newspapers they could get for free) to keep his
60'x22' greenhouse warm. With some clever use of stove pipe, redirect the
heat from the stove on a shallow grade upwards instead of right out the
roof, to radiate the heat.
Also, running pipe under 6' of ground, set in concrete, and running water
through it up and close under the raised beds if you are using the houses
to actually grow stuff, will keep your beds at about 65 degrees F all
winter long. If you use solar to run the water through the pipes, it's a
no energy cost system once you pay for the solar system. There are DIY
solar system plans out there that would work great. You just need someone
in your group that's handy with that sort of thing, or buy salvage panels
(also there are ways to get unused panels - google). It might take a few
weekends of digging and some work and bucks to make the concrete casings
(which actually increase the efficiency of the system), you can save a lot
of money on your 'geothermal' system.
The greenhouses at MSU had little servomotors that ran off thermostats
that rolled the side plastic sheeting up and down, likewise little
servomotors at the end walls which opened and closed louvers for heat
accumulation at the top level, or let in fresh air when needed. All these
things have been worked out there which is why I thought they would be of
help to you.
I like Richard's idea of tunnels on the bed themselves in-ground rather
than the expense of the houses.
Using several smaller structures is also a good idea. If you want air
circulation through a hoop house, you wouldn't want to wall off portions
of it for different temperature growing micro-climates. But if you had
smaller houses, as Richard suggested, for each temperature setting to help
certain plants, it would be easier to regulate the temperature in each
one. They don't have to be big - maybe 10x10.
Look around at things like junk yards for really cheap materials.
Sometimes your trash companies find stuff that could be used. I have a
client (we built a garden for him) who works for Waste Management who gets
me cardboard and other things needed to build beds. Making friends who
look out for freebies can save you a ton of money. Many manufacturing
companies throw out stuff you can use but can't give it to you directly.
But once it hits the waste company, it's just a matter of getting a friend
to set it aside for you. I use cardboard - two layers - under box raised
beds to insulate, protect against weed invasion, and kill grass. This
strategy can help you if you get resourceful.
Best,
Diann Dirks
Certified Permaculture Designer, Ga.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Menn" <rtm...@verizon.net>
To: "Jama Crawford" <j...@frontier.net>
Cc: <community_garden@list.communitygarden.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Community_garden] cost of hoop house
Hello, Jama--
Here are a few quick thoughts and questions, with a promise to follow up
when I have more information:
Are you folks wedded to the notion of using a single high hoop house?
Aside from the prohibitive cost, given your budget, 90 feet seems much
too long for a passive solar system (using no blowers) of the height and
width that you describe: I think that you'd have a great deal of trouble
controlling both temperature and humidity, and would definitely wind up
with stale air near the middle--especially in the dead of winter, when
you'd often need to keep the ends tightly closed around the clock.
If you're set on using a walk-in space, a better strategy might be to
divide that length among several shorter structures, which could then be
used to address different temperature needs for different crops.
Remember, too, that rolling long side curtains up and down by hand on a
daily basis to ventilate your cold frame during transitional periods
could itself be quite a chore. In any case, you'd need to spend several
thousand dollars for your dream house.
On the other hand: Would you be willing to consider enclosing the same
amount of row space, configured a bit differently, with low tunnels
instead, using 4-foot hoops? That would be my preference--and I think
that you could do it quickly with the money you have on hand. I can give
you a list of materials and their cost, if you wish.
Finally, do you plan to cover existing rows with your new cold
frame(s)?--or will you determine the row orientation, width and spacing
based on your choice of the final design?
Let's keep talking (and rereading The Winter Harvest Handbook by Eliot
Coleman)--
--Dick
Jama Crawford wrote:
Dear Colleagues
We are considering installing a high hoop house (approx 12' wide, 7'
tall, 90' long) for raising bedding plants, lettuce, and tomatoes. We
typically have a very short season although this fall was extraordinarily
generous with its frost free days.
Our garden has $650 left at the end of the season. Unheard of. We are
always broke at the end of the season. So a hoop house is highest on the
list of how to invest that money in future operations. We spend about
$3,000 raising bedding plants at a commercial greenhouse each year, so
reducing that cost could pay for the hoop house (as soon as we master the
greenhouse operations - we can't pretend to know this piece of it yet).
I've looked up the cost of parts in catalogs and on line and have a basic
idea of the cost, which exceeds this small budget, but I'm not sure if a
clever and frugal group of gardeners has come up with a good hoop house
for less. The house must shed snow, of course, so I'm especially
interested in the experiences of gardeners from northern latitudes who
must also deal with a lot of winter snow.
Thanks for your input!!
Jama Crawford
Shared Harvest Community Garden
Durango, CO
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