There are 15 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Is this a good place to present Ehenív?
From: Nina-Kristine Johnson
1b. Re: Is this a good place to present Ehenív?
From: Padraic Brown
1c. Re: Is this a good place to present Ehenív?
From: H. S. Teoh
1d. Re: Is this a good place to present Ehenív?
From: Adam Walker
1e. Re: Is this a good place to present Ehenív?
From: George Marques de Jesus
2a. Re: Dieing Languages
From: Padraic Brown
2b. Re: Dieing Languages
From: Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
2c. Re: Dieing Languages
From: Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
2d. Re: Dieing Languages
From: Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
2e. Re: Dieing Languages
From: Adam Walker
2f. Re: Dieing Languages
From: Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
3a. Ot: Ihilda and the Mescratchious
From: Daniel Bowman
3b. Re: Ot: Ihilda and the Mescratchious
From: Amanda Babcock Furrow
3c. Re: Ot: Ihilda and the Mescratchious
From: Adam Walker
4. Revising Tirelat romanization
From: Herman Miller
Messages
________________________________________________________________________
1a. Is this a good place to present Ehenív?
Posted by: "Nina-Kristine Johnson" ninakristi...@gmail.com
Date: Tue May 28, 2013 4:50 pm ((PDT))
Hiya!
Ok, so I've been lurking and occasionally posting responses. Please don't
mistake me for a troll!
But there is something I never told you lot: I created a language. In 2004.
It is called *Ehenív*. Literally "Desert Language". It was created *in the
desert* (I live in a desert), so why not?
I am a bit shy about showing this (please don't laugh at me!) because I
don't know what you adults (I'm 30 to be fair) would think of my Conlang.
I always felt that I would be perceived as a *braggart*. But after months
on the mailing list: I think its time to show my cards. I also finished
editing my glossary.
I started working on it at University. I spent 8 years perfecting it and
because of it: it is actually somewhat functional. I know it is not really
anyone's cuppa tea, but I enjoy using it on my little dry erase board at
work for writing out my daily agenda (break at 9 AM, e.g.). My colleagues
think it is amusing when I use the language.
Here is a link to the site. *Kiti...bi wanho*. (please enjoy)
http://irondune.com/eheniv_site/ehenivhohai1.html
*Tisala-e aks kitit!* (Cheers and thanks!),
Kristine
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
1b. Re: Is this a good place to present Ehenív?
Posted by: "Padraic Brown" elemti...@yahoo.com
Date: Tue May 28, 2013 5:15 pm ((PDT))
--- On Tue, 5/28/13, Nina-Kristine Johnson <ninakristi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hiya!
>
> Ok, so I've been lurking and occasionally posting responses.
> Please don't mistake me for a troll!
Nah, Trolls don't talk all nice and grammatical!
> But there is something I never told you lot: I created a
> language. In 2004.
Certainly better late than never to tell anyone... And this is certainly
as good a place as any to describe it!
> It is called *Ehenív*. Literally "Desert Language". It was
> created *in the desert* (I live in a desert), so why not?
Indeed.
> I am a bit shy about showing this (please don't laugh at me!)
No worries. No one will laugh at you or send you to bed without dinner.
> because I don't know what you adults (I'm 30 to be fair)
You are nowhere close to being the youngest conlanger by age nor the
youngest person hereabouts!
> would think of my Conlang.
Tell us about it! And about the people that speak it...and the world it's
spoken in!
> I always felt that I would be perceived as a *braggart*.
I very much hope that in the months you've been lurking here you haven't
gotten the idea that folks hereabouts are braggarts... Excited and
passionate yes (and often stepping on one another's toes), but I don't
recall as anyone has actually lorded their skill over someone else.
> But after months on the mailing list: I think its time to show my cards.
Well, I've got two red threes and a natural canasta at sixes, so far.
> I also finished editing my glossary.
"Finished"?
Gosh.
> *Tisala-e aks kitit!* (Cheers and thanks!),
samctan camtar-co takam aloteyames-he!
(blessings and joy of spirit all your days)
Padraic
> Kristine
>
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
1c. Re: Is this a good place to present Ehenív?
Posted by: "H. S. Teoh" hst...@quickfur.ath.cx
Date: Tue May 28, 2013 5:28 pm ((PDT))
On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 04:50:32PM -0700, Nina-Kristine Johnson wrote:
> Hiya!
>
> Ok, so I've been lurking and occasionally posting responses. Please
> don't mistake me for a troll!
>
> But there is something I never told you lot: I created a language. In
> 2004. It is called *Ehenív*. Literally "Desert Language". It was
> created *in the desert* (I live in a desert), so why not?
You do realize that the *point* of this mailing list is so that we have
a safe forum to share our conlangs without feeling embarrassed about it,
right? :)
So to answer your subject line: yes, this is a good place to present
your conlang, perhaps even the best place!
> I am a bit shy about showing this (please don't laugh at me!) because
> I don't know what you adults (I'm 30 to be fair) would think of my
> Conlang.
There's no need to be shy; we love hearing about conlangs of all kinds.
>From a brief look at your webpages, it seems you have quite a lot of
good stuff going on in your conlang. Like contractions, for example.
That makes it more naturalistic, and is a good thing to have.
> I always felt that I would be perceived as a *braggart*. But after
> months on the mailing list: I think its time to show my cards. I also
> finished editing my glossary.
Actually, you should've posted your conlang from the get-go. We at
CONLANG always welcome any conlang, no matter how wild (or tame!). In
the old days, people used to regularly post grammar sketches to the
list. So you needn't feel shy about doing that here. That's what this
list is for!
> I started working on it at University. I spent 8 years perfecting it
> and because of it: it is actually somewhat functional. I know it is
> not really anyone's cuppa tea, but I enjoy using it on my little dry
> erase board at work for writing out my daily agenda (break at 9 AM,
> e.g.). My colleagues think it is amusing when I use the language.
You're doing a lot better than I am. After all these years, I'm still
shy about publically displaying my conlangs, especially IRL.
> Here is a link to the site. *Kiti...bi wanho*. (please enjoy)
>
> http://irondune.com/eheniv_site/ehenivhohai1.html
>
> *Tisala-e aks kitit!* (Cheers and thanks!),
[...]
Very nice! Looks like you have fleshed out your conlang quite a lot. At
least you got it to a point you can use it for everyday tasks! None of
my conlangs are quite at that level yet, though that is certainly a goal
(if a somewhat distant one).
More grammar descriptions would be nice, though. Where are adjectives
placed, for example? Do they come before/after the noun (or something
else)? What about more complex clause structures, like relative clauses
(e.g. "the man whose bicycle I stole last night came to look for me") or
hypothetical constructions (e.g. "I would die of thirst if I didn't
drink for 3 days!"; "if I did that, I wouldn't be here today", etc.).
What about direct/indirect speech? And negation? Are double negatives
allowed (and do two negatives make a positive like English, or still
remain negative, like Russian?) Any interesting idioms/proverbs that
only exist in your conlang? And so on.
(It's OK if you haven't decided on some of these things -- conlangs are
rarely ever complete to the extent natlangs are; that's why we often
keep working on the same conlang for years and decades. And that's why
this list can be an amazing resource -- you constantly hear about
aspects of language that you hadn't thought of before, which motivates
you to think about how to express it in your conlang. It's very helpful
for fleshing out the details of your conlang.)
But anyway, welcome to the club! We'd like to hear more about your
conlang!
T
--
Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. Use your hands...
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
1d. Re: Is this a good place to present Ehenív?
Posted by: "Adam Walker" carra...@gmail.com
Date: Tue May 28, 2013 5:28 pm ((PDT))
Oh wow!! These videos are COOL! I want to do something like this for
Carrajina. But I only have one jerkin...
Adam
On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 6:50 PM, Nina-Kristine Johnson <
ninakristi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hiya!
>
> Ok, so I've been lurking and occasionally posting responses. Please don't
> mistake me for a troll!
>
> But there is something I never told you lot: I created a language. In 2004.
> It is called *Ehenív*. Literally "Desert Language". It was created *in the
> desert* (I live in a desert), so why not?
>
> I am a bit shy about showing this (please don't laugh at me!) because I
> don't know what you adults (I'm 30 to be fair) would think of my Conlang.
>
> I always felt that I would be perceived as a *braggart*. But after months
> on the mailing list: I think its time to show my cards. I also finished
> editing my glossary.
>
> I started working on it at University. I spent 8 years perfecting it and
> because of it: it is actually somewhat functional. I know it is not really
> anyone's cuppa tea, but I enjoy using it on my little dry erase board at
> work for writing out my daily agenda (break at 9 AM, e.g.). My colleagues
> think it is amusing when I use the language.
>
> Here is a link to the site. *Kiti...bi wanho*. (please enjoy)
>
> http://irondune.com/eheniv_site/ehenivhohai1.html
>
> *Tisala-e aks kitit!* (Cheers and thanks!),
> Kristine
>
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
1e. Re: Is this a good place to present Ehenív?
Posted by: "George Marques de Jesus" georgemje...@gmail.com
Date: Tue May 28, 2013 6:07 pm ((PDT))
I loved those videos. They made me notice that you have a word for
"internet" and I liked how it has something to do with an "electric book"
(and "home/house" if I got it right), because I never thought in this way.
George Marques
http://georgemarques.com.br
2013/5/28 Adam Walker <carra...@gmail.com>
> Oh wow!! These videos are COOL! I want to do something like this for
> Carrajina. But I only have one jerkin...
>
> Adam
>
>
> On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 6:50 PM, Nina-Kristine Johnson <
> ninakristi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hiya!
> >
> > Ok, so I've been lurking and occasionally posting responses. Please don't
> > mistake me for a troll!
> >
> > But there is something I never told you lot: I created a language. In
> 2004.
> > It is called *Ehenív*. Literally "Desert Language". It was created *in
> the
> > desert* (I live in a desert), so why not?
> >
> > I am a bit shy about showing this (please don't laugh at me!) because I
> > don't know what you adults (I'm 30 to be fair) would think of my Conlang.
> >
> > I always felt that I would be perceived as a *braggart*. But after months
> > on the mailing list: I think its time to show my cards. I also finished
> > editing my glossary.
> >
> > I started working on it at University. I spent 8 years perfecting it and
> > because of it: it is actually somewhat functional. I know it is not
> really
> > anyone's cuppa tea, but I enjoy using it on my little dry erase board at
> > work for writing out my daily agenda (break at 9 AM, e.g.). My colleagues
> > think it is amusing when I use the language.
> >
> > Here is a link to the site. *Kiti...bi wanho*. (please enjoy)
> >
> > http://irondune.com/eheniv_site/ehenivhohai1.html
> >
> > *Tisala-e aks kitit!* (Cheers and thanks!),
> > Kristine
> >
>
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
2a. Re: Dieing Languages
Posted by: "Padraic Brown" elemti...@yahoo.com
Date: Tue May 28, 2013 4:54 pm ((PDT))
--- On Tue, 5/28/13, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews <goldyemo...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> What's the different idea? That's there is a small line of speakers?
Most conlangers who also delve into the history and culture of their
languages do not typically design their conlangs to be dead languages
or even moribund (dying). Doing so places you in the company of very
few conlangers.
While not a dead language, one of the design elements of Kerno (one of
my colangs, a Romance language spoken in the alt-historical world called
"Ill Bethisad") is just that: it is a language that is dying in its own
homeland. It's certainly not down to a single family of speakers, but as
of the last time I worked on the issue, was probably down to about a
speaker community of 20% to 25% L1 (first language speakers) out of the
whole province.
> This family is the last decendant of a line of Silknish
> speakers.
>
> When going out amongst others, the Silknish speak Yardish,
> though they stumble a bit over the different pronunciations
> of words.
> Silknish and Yardish do have sound and spelling differences,
> maybe Silknish difficult to read for Yardish speakers and
> vise versa.
> For example, the word noidle can be spelled noydle or noidle
> in Yardish, but in Silknish is only spelled one way:
> `n/o*id#%l$e.
What does that work out to?
> This also makes translation difficult as Silknish would have
> words that would be spelled in shorter form in Yardish,
> longer and vise versa.
> Linguistic mistakes during language translation could
> confuse the reader if the word was intended to be Yardish,
> but written in Silknish script or vise versa.
> This is why the revival is discouraged, as Silknish doesn't
> cross-over into Yardish, and vise versa.
> In other words, a word in Silknish doesn't mean the same
> thing in Yardish.
>
>
> There is some Silknish literature, but it's so rare, that
> Silknish tombs are expensive, and one would have to get them
> from a book trader as Libraries don't keep them.
> One can also find a Silknish book collector, but the
> collectors can't go into business as there aren't many
> Yardish speakers who want to learn Silknish.
> Silknish doesnât have any missing grammatical forms.
>
> Let me know if this works or not. Is there still a way to
> borrow from Silknish, or did I make Silknish unborrowable?
Sounds workable enough. There are always ways to borrow, though the
results may show altered meaning and will almost certainly show altered
pronunciation and spelling.
Padraic
Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
2b. Re: Dieing Languages
Posted by: "Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews" goldyemo...@gmail.com
Date: Tue May 28, 2013 5:05 pm ((PDT))
Good, finally I'm grasping something. How does what work out too?
Mellissa Green
@GreenNovelist
-----Original Message-----
From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:conl...@listserv.brown.edu] On Behalf
Of Padraic Brown
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:55 PM
To: conl...@listserv.brown.edu
Subject: Re: Dieing Languages
--- On Tue, 5/28/13, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews <goldyemo...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> What's the different idea? That's there is a small line of speakers?
Most conlangers who also delve into the history and culture of their
languages do not typically design their conlangs to be dead languages
or even moribund (dying). Doing so places you in the company of very
few conlangers.
While not a dead language, one of the design elements of Kerno (one of
my colangs, a Romance language spoken in the alt-historical world called
"Ill Bethisad") is just that: it is a language that is dying in its own
homeland. It's certainly not down to a single family of speakers, but as
of the last time I worked on the issue, was probably down to about a
speaker community of 20% to 25% L1 (first language speakers) out of the
whole province.
> This family is the last decendant of a line of Silknish
> speakers.
>
> When going out amongst others, the Silknish speak Yardish,
> though they stumble a bit over the different pronunciations
> of words.
> Silknish and Yardish do have sound and spelling differences,
> maybe Silknish difficult to read for Yardish speakers and
> vise versa.
> For example, the word noidle can be spelled noydle or noidle
> in Yardish, but in Silknish is only spelled one way:
> `n/o*id#%l$e.
What does that work out to?
> This also makes translation difficult as Silknish would have
> words that would be spelled in shorter form in Yardish,
> longer and vise versa.
> Linguistic mistakes during language translation could
> confuse the reader if the word was intended to be Yardish,
> but written in Silknish script or vise versa.
> This is why the revival is discouraged, as Silknish doesn't
> cross-over into Yardish, and vise versa.
> In other words, a word in Silknish doesn't mean the same
> thing in Yardish.
>
>
> There is some Silknish literature, but it's so rare, that
> Silknish tombs are expensive, and one would have to get them
> from a book trader as Libraries don't keep them.
> One can also find a Silknish book collector, but the
> collectors can't go into business as there aren't many
> Yardish speakers who want to learn Silknish.
> Silknish doesnât have any missing grammatical forms.
>
> Let me know if this works or not. Is there still a way to
> borrow from Silknish, or did I make Silknish unborrowable?
Sounds workable enough. There are always ways to borrow, though the
results may show altered meaning and will almost certainly show altered
pronunciation and spelling.
Padraic
Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
2c. Re: Dieing Languages
Posted by: "Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews" goldyemo...@gmail.com
Date: Tue May 28, 2013 5:14 pm ((PDT))
So the meaning would automatically change?
Would ten members be considered as a speech community or network?
I know my linguistics texts talk about speech communities and network, but
there isn't mentioned in my Sociolinguistics book. I wish that book had mor
than the one chapter on the subject. There is a small section in Chapter one in
my Introduction to Linguistics text, but the same thing.
Mellissa Green
@GreenNovelist
-----Original Message-----
From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:conl...@listserv.brown.edu] On Behalf
Of Padraic Brown
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:55 PM
To: conl...@listserv.brown.edu
Subject: Re: Dieing Languages
--- On Tue, 5/28/13, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews <goldyemo...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> What's the different idea? That's there is a small line of speakers?
Most conlangers who also delve into the history and culture of their
languages do not typically design their conlangs to be dead languages
or even moribund (dying). Doing so places you in the company of very
few conlangers.
While not a dead language, one of the design elements of Kerno (one of
my colangs, a Romance language spoken in the alt-historical world called
"Ill Bethisad") is just that: it is a language that is dying in its own
homeland. It's certainly not down to a single family of speakers, but as
of the last time I worked on the issue, was probably down to about a
speaker community of 20% to 25% L1 (first language speakers) out of the
whole province.
> This family is the last decendant of a line of Silknish
> speakers.
>
> When going out amongst others, the Silknish speak Yardish,
> though they stumble a bit over the different pronunciations
> of words.
> Silknish and Yardish do have sound and spelling differences,
> maybe Silknish difficult to read for Yardish speakers and
> vise versa.
> For example, the word noidle can be spelled noydle or noidle
> in Yardish, but in Silknish is only spelled one way:
> `n/o*id#%l$e.
What does that work out to?
> This also makes translation difficult as Silknish would have
> words that would be spelled in shorter form in Yardish,
> longer and vise versa.
> Linguistic mistakes during language translation could
> confuse the reader if the word was intended to be Yardish,
> but written in Silknish script or vise versa.
> This is why the revival is discouraged, as Silknish doesn't
> cross-over into Yardish, and vise versa.
> In other words, a word in Silknish doesn't mean the same
> thing in Yardish.
>
>
> There is some Silknish literature, but it's so rare, that
> Silknish tombs are expensive, and one would have to get them
> from a book trader as Libraries don't keep them.
> One can also find a Silknish book collector, but the
> collectors can't go into business as there aren't many
> Yardish speakers who want to learn Silknish.
> Silknish doesnât have any missing grammatical forms.
>
> Let me know if this works or not. Is there still a way to
> borrow from Silknish, or did I make Silknish unborrowable?
Sounds workable enough. There are always ways to borrow, though the
results may show altered meaning and will almost certainly show altered
pronunciation and spelling.
Padraic
Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
2d. Re: Dieing Languages
Posted by: "Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews" goldyemo...@gmail.com
Date: Tue May 28, 2013 5:24 pm ((PDT))
The last descendants want Silknish to become a living language to increase the
current vocabulary, so that unnamed items, like an unknown disease can use
Silknish root forms, as the diseases and medical terms have those, and they
feel that giving a new diseas or medical term or instrument has a Yardish root
form, it would change the meaning. For examplele, the root form `t#c%%h$e which
means frost, as in frostbite, would change to fever is spelled tche, which
wouldn't work with bite.
Mellissa Green
@GreenNovelist
-----Original Message-----
From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:conl...@listserv.brown.edu] On Behalf
Of Padraic Brown
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:55 PM
To: conl...@listserv.brown.edu
Subject: Re: Dieing Languages
--- On Tue, 5/28/13, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews <goldyemo...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> What's the different idea? That's there is a small line of speakers?
Most conlangers who also delve into the history and culture of their
languages do not typically design their conlangs to be dead languages
or even moribund (dying). Doing so places you in the company of very
few conlangers.
While not a dead language, one of the design elements of Kerno (one of
my colangs, a Romance language spoken in the alt-historical world called
"Ill Bethisad") is just that: it is a language that is dying in its own
homeland. It's certainly not down to a single family of speakers, but as
of the last time I worked on the issue, was probably down to about a
speaker community of 20% to 25% L1 (first language speakers) out of the
whole province.
> This family is the last decendant of a line of Silknish
> speakers.
>
> When going out amongst others, the Silknish speak Yardish,
> though they stumble a bit over the different pronunciations
> of words.
> Silknish and Yardish do have sound and spelling differences,
> maybe Silknish difficult to read for Yardish speakers and
> vise versa.
> For example, the word noidle can be spelled noydle or noidle
> in Yardish, but in Silknish is only spelled one way:
> `n/o*id#%l$e.
What does that work out to?
> This also makes translation difficult as Silknish would have
> words that would be spelled in shorter form in Yardish,
> longer and vise versa.
> Linguistic mistakes during language translation could
> confuse the reader if the word was intended to be Yardish,
> but written in Silknish script or vise versa.
> This is why the revival is discouraged, as Silknish doesn't
> cross-over into Yardish, and vise versa.
> In other words, a word in Silknish doesn't mean the same
> thing in Yardish.
>
>
> There is some Silknish literature, but it's so rare, that
> Silknish tombs are expensive, and one would have to get them
> from a book trader as Libraries don't keep them.
> One can also find a Silknish book collector, but the
> collectors can't go into business as there aren't many
> Yardish speakers who want to learn Silknish.
> Silknish doesnât have any missing grammatical forms.
>
> Let me know if this works or not. Is there still a way to
> borrow from Silknish, or did I make Silknish unborrowable?
Sounds workable enough. There are always ways to borrow, though the
results may show altered meaning and will almost certainly show altered
pronunciation and spelling.
Padraic
Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
2e. Re: Dieing Languages
Posted by: "Adam Walker" carra...@gmail.com
Date: Tue May 28, 2013 5:31 pm ((PDT))
Nu cumprindju.
Adam
On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 10:23 PM, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews <
goldyemo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The last descendants want Silknish to become a living language to increase
> the current vocabulary, so that unnamed items, like an unknown disease can
> use Silknish root forms, as the diseases and medical terms have those, and
> they feel that giving a new diseas or medical term or instrument has a
> Yardish root form, it would change the meaning. For examplele, the root
> form `t#c%%h$e which means frost, as in frostbite, would change to fever is
> spelled tche, which wouldn't work with bite.
>
> Mellissa Green
>
>
> @GreenNovelist
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:conl...@listserv.brown.edu] On
> Behalf Of Padraic Brown
> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:55 PM
> To: conl...@listserv.brown.edu
> Subject: Re: Dieing Languages
>
> --- On Tue, 5/28/13, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews <
> goldyemo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > What's the different idea? That's there is a small line of speakers?
>
> Most conlangers who also delve into the history and culture of their
> languages do not typically design their conlangs to be dead languages
> or even moribund (dying). Doing so places you in the company of very
> few conlangers.
>
> While not a dead language, one of the design elements of Kerno (one of
> my colangs, a Romance language spoken in the alt-historical world called
> "Ill Bethisad") is just that: it is a language that is dying in its own
> homeland. It's certainly not down to a single family of speakers, but as
> of the last time I worked on the issue, was probably down to about a
> speaker community of 20% to 25% L1 (first language speakers) out of the
> whole province.
>
> > This family is the last decendant of a line of Silknish
> > speakers.
> >
> > When going out amongst others, the Silknish speak Yardish,
> > though they stumble a bit over the different pronunciations
> > of words.
> > Silknish and Yardish do have sound and spelling differences,
> > maybe Silknish difficult to read for Yardish speakers and
> > vise versa.
> > For example, the word noidle can be spelled noydle or noidle
> > in Yardish, but in Silknish is only spelled one way:
> > `n/o*id#%l$e.
>
> What does that work out to?
>
> > This also makes translation difficult as Silknish would have
> > words that would be spelled in shorter form in Yardish,
> > longer and vise versa.
> > Linguistic mistakes during language translation could
> > confuse the reader if the word was intended to be Yardish,
> > but written in Silknish script or vise versa.
> > This is why the revival is discouraged, as Silknish doesn't
> > cross-over into Yardish, and vise versa.
> > In other words, a word in Silknish doesn't mean the same
> > thing in Yardish.
> >
> >
> > There is some Silknish literature, but it's so rare, that
> > Silknish tombs are expensive, and one would have to get them
> > from a book trader as Libraries don't keep them.
> > One can also find a Silknish book collector, but the
> > collectors can't go into business as there aren't many
> > Yardish speakers who want to learn Silknish.
> > Silknish doesnt have any missing grammatical forms.
> >
> > Let me know if this works or not. Is there still a way to
> > borrow from Silknish, or did I make Silknish unborrowable?
>
> Sounds workable enough. There are always ways to borrow, though the
> results may show altered meaning and will almost certainly show altered
> pronunciation and spelling.
>
> Padraic
>
>
>
Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
2f. Re: Dieing Languages
Posted by: "Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews" goldyemo...@gmail.com
Date: Tue May 28, 2013 6:31 pm ((PDT))
I know my screen reader goofed that one. I think you said you didn't have
aclue what I wrote.
What got you confused.
Mellissa Green
@GreenNovelist
-----Original Message-----
From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:conl...@listserv.brown.edu] On
Behalf Of Adam Walker
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 5:32 PM
To: conl...@listserv.brown.edu
Subject: Re: Dieing Languages
Nu cumprindju.
Adam
On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 10:23 PM, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews <
goldyemo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The last descendants want Silknish to become a living language to increase
> the current vocabulary, so that unnamed items, like an unknown disease can
> use Silknish root forms, as the diseases and medical terms have those, and
> they feel that giving a new diseas or medical term or instrument has a
> Yardish root form, it would change the meaning. For examplele, the root
> form `t#c%%h$e which means frost, as in frostbite, would change to fever
is
> spelled tche, which wouldn't work with bite.
>
> Mellissa Green
>
>
> @GreenNovelist
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:conl...@listserv.brown.edu] On
> Behalf Of Padraic Brown
> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 4:55 PM
> To: conl...@listserv.brown.edu
> Subject: Re: Dieing Languages
>
> --- On Tue, 5/28/13, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews <
> goldyemo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > What's the different idea? That's there is a small line of speakers?
>
> Most conlangers who also delve into the history and culture of their
> languages do not typically design their conlangs to be dead languages
> or even moribund (dying). Doing so places you in the company of very
> few conlangers.
>
> While not a dead language, one of the design elements of Kerno (one of
> my colangs, a Romance language spoken in the alt-historical world called
> "Ill Bethisad") is just that: it is a language that is dying in its own
> homeland. It's certainly not down to a single family of speakers, but as
> of the last time I worked on the issue, was probably down to about a
> speaker community of 20% to 25% L1 (first language speakers) out of the
> whole province.
>
> > This family is the last decendant of a line of Silknish
> > speakers.
> >
> > When going out amongst others, the Silknish speak Yardish,
> > though they stumble a bit over the different pronunciations
> > of words.
> > Silknish and Yardish do have sound and spelling differences,
> > maybe Silknish difficult to read for Yardish speakers and
> > vise versa.
> > For example, the word noidle can be spelled noydle or noidle
> > in Yardish, but in Silknish is only spelled one way:
> > `n/o*id#%l$e.
>
> What does that work out to?
>
> > This also makes translation difficult as Silknish would have
> > words that would be spelled in shorter form in Yardish,
> > longer and vise versa.
> > Linguistic mistakes during language translation could
> > confuse the reader if the word was intended to be Yardish,
> > but written in Silknish script or vise versa.
> > This is why the revival is discouraged, as Silknish doesn't
> > cross-over into Yardish, and vise versa.
> > In other words, a word in Silknish doesn't mean the same
> > thing in Yardish.
> >
> >
> > There is some Silknish literature, but it's so rare, that
> > Silknish tombs are expensive, and one would have to get them
> > from a book trader as Libraries don't keep them.
> > One can also find a Silknish book collector, but the
> > collectors can't go into business as there aren't many
> > Yardish speakers who want to learn Silknish.
> > Silknish doesn't have any missing grammatical forms.
> >
> > Let me know if this works or not. Is there still a way to
> > borrow from Silknish, or did I make Silknish unborrowable?
>
> Sounds workable enough. There are always ways to borrow, though the
> results may show altered meaning and will almost certainly show altered
> pronunciation and spelling.
>
> Padraic
>
>
>
Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
3a. Ot: Ihilda and the Mescratchious
Posted by: "Daniel Bowman" danny.c.bow...@gmail.com
Date: Tue May 28, 2013 5:55 pm ((PDT))
Hi All:
Before you read any further - what does the following title of a fantasy
novella evoke for you:
Ihilda and the Mescratchious
You may wonder why I am asking this (and how is it related to conlanging).
It's rather exciting for me, actually. I have a reasonably polished draft of a
novella aimed for the young adult market. I have incorporated a few Angosey
words into it; unfortunately Angosey doesn't get to be any more than a naming
language in this case because I don't have a Lord of the Rings sized manuscript
to develop it for my readers.
I just sat down to do a rigorous line-by-line edit when it occurred to me that
my title "Ihilda and the Mescratchious" might give a different impression than
I would like, or be completely confusing. Obviously this will not fly. No
agent or publishing company will pick up my manuscript if they can't understand
the title. So what I'd like to know is a) does the title confuse you, or do
you want to know more and b) what exactly does this title evoke for you?
I look forward to discussing how I wove Angosey into the story if there's
interest on the list.
Thank you,
Danny
Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
3b. Re: Ot: Ihilda and the Mescratchious
Posted by: "Amanda Babcock Furrow" la...@quandary.org
Date: Tue May 28, 2013 6:23 pm ((PDT))
On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 08:55:24PM -0400, Daniel Bowman wrote:
> Before you read any further - what does the following title of a fantasy
> novella evoke for you:
>
> Ihilda and the Mescratchious
Honestly? It sounds itchy, to me. The me-scratch-ious. Not the most pleasant
associations! :)
tylakèhlpë'da,
Amanda
Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
3c. Re: Ot: Ihilda and the Mescratchious
Posted by: "Adam Walker" carra...@gmail.com
Date: Tue May 28, 2013 6:28 pm ((PDT))
Unfortunately, that's exactly what I thought of too-- skin diseases!
Scratch is far too recognizable if that's NOT what you intended.
Adam
On 5/28/13, Amanda Babcock Furrow <la...@quandary.org> wrote:
> On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 08:55:24PM -0400, Daniel Bowman wrote:
>
>> Before you read any further - what does the following title of a fantasy
>> novella evoke for you:
>>
>> Ihilda and the Mescratchious
>
> Honestly? It sounds itchy, to me. The me-scratch-ious. Not the most
> pleasant associations! :)
>
> tylakÄhlpÄ'da,
> Amanda
>
Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
4. Revising Tirelat romanization
Posted by: "Herman Miller" hmil...@prismnet.com
Date: Tue May 28, 2013 6:13 pm ((PDT))
I've been thinking for some time that it might be better to spell out
Tirelat affricates as <ts> and <dz> instead of <Ä> and <ż>. For one
thing, natlangs never pronounce these as /ts/ and /dz/, and for another,
spelling them as <ts> and <dz> makes the pronunciation obvious.
Now I'm starting to think that I should just simply avoid the letter <x>
in any of my languages. I've been thinking about the name "Xora Xhoan
Daxos" from the "Game of Thrones" series. If it's meant to be pronounced
"Zora Zoan Daksos", as the actors do, why not just spell it that way? If
it's meant to be pronounced differently, no one can know which of the
many pronunciations of <x> is intended.
The obvious fix is to use <kh> for the /x/ sound. It could be mistaken
for /k.h/ as in "backhand" or "sinkhole", but not much else, and Tirelat
doesn't have an /h/ sound. Plus it gives me an excuse to write <gh> for
/É£/. I've never much liked <Ä¡> or <Ä>, or any of the alternatives like
<Æ£> ("gha", U+01A3).
So, what about other potential changes?
1. <rh> for /rÌ¥/ (voiceless r). I've been using <Å> since there are few
alternatives for precomposed characters with a diacritic on the letter
<r>, and none of the others seemed much better (perhaps <á¹> might be
suitable). I've considered <hr>, but this leads to ambiguity if I
continue using <h> for long vowels.
2. <ng> for /Å/. While this would make typing easier, there's always the
problem of how to represent /ÅÉ¡/, and the obvious solutions are <ngg> or
<n'g>. Since nasal+stop clusters in Tirelat are always homorganic, <mg>
would also work. But it still seems like <Å> is the best way to spell /Å/.
3. <y> for /j/. Spelling /j/ as <y> would leave <j> free to represent
/dÊ/, which exists in some conservative dialects. But there's nothing
much wrong with <dž>, and I'd need a new spelling for /ɨ/, which I'm
currently writing as <y>.
4. <lh> for /ɬ/. While it's a nice analogy with <rh>, I think the letter
<Å> should be familiar enough that there's no need to change it. A worse
problem is potential confusion with /Ê/.
5. Double letters for long vowels. This would be reasonable, but Tirelat
actually uses a letter to mark long vowels in its native alphabet, and
<h> seems like the best way to spell this character in a romanized version.
Any thoughts on these conventions? My inclination is to go with <ts>,
<dz>, <kh>, <gh>, and <rh>, but keep <Å>, <j>, <Å>, and <h> for long vowels.
Messages in this topic (1)
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