There are 5 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1.1. Re: Sold here / for sale / on sale / on sale here
From: Douglas Koller
2a. Re: Early draft for 'nym' URI
From: DataPacRat
3.1. Fiction & language families (was: Is Esperanto Indo-European?)
From: R A Brown
3.2. Re: Fiction & language families (was: Is Esperanto Indo-European?)
From: Js Bangs
4a. Re: Conlang punctuation.
From: Allison Swenson
Messages
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1.1. Re: Sold here / for sale / on sale / on sale here
Posted by: "Douglas Koller" douglaskol...@hotmail.com
Date: Sun Jun 9, 2013 8:05 pm ((PDT))
> Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2013 23:02:24 -0400
> From: p...@phillipdriscoll.com
> Subject: Re: Sold here / for sale / on sale / on sale here
> To: conl...@listserv.brown.edu
> >> I suspect these are misspellings of "sell." In some
> >> varieties of American English, "sell" and "sale" can
> >> sound very similar.
> > That wouldn't explain away "X saled it." I've never heard "sell" nudging
> > toward weak verb status, no matter how varietal one's English gets. I could
> > be wrong, of course. If I am, and "selled" is gaining currency, I'll be the
> > one over there flailing histrionically, shrieking "o tempora, o mores", and
> > running into the horizon (conversely and perhaps illogically, I couldn't
> > care less about the use of "saled").
> You haven't spent any time among African-Americans in Detroit, have you?
O tempora! O mores! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
Kou
Messages in this topic (35)
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2a. Re: Early draft for 'nym' URI
Posted by: "DataPacRat" datapac...@gmail.com
Date: Sun Jun 9, 2013 8:38 pm ((PDT))
On Sun, 9 Jun 2013 18:24:31 -0400, Ralph wrote:
> I don't have any comments on the overall format, but I'm curious
> about the sanctity of the 'Authority' field. If someone can spoof a
> nym tag they might be able to 'borrow' a reputation. Is this
> protected by some dual key encryption somehow?
>
> I'll take any following replies offline unless anyone else is
> interested in this sort of arcana.
Hello, and thank you for your response.
As it's currently written, nym can integrate into existing public-key
infrastructure (like PGP/GnuPG) in two ways.
One is to use the "key" field adopted from the vCard format, so that a
nym assertion links to a particular public key. This includes an
authority linking its own identity to that key.
The other is the optional hash at the end of a nym, to authenticate
the overall nym using whatever key is associated with that authority.
While it is, of course, possible to submit a public key to a keyserver
that claims to be of one identity but is controlled by a third party,
this problem is already handled by existing PKI systems, such as using
PGP's web-of-trust model to sign keys.
In case you're curious, what I'm currently trying to think through is
that, if nym is adopted as an RFC, it would be a full-fledged URI. As
nyms can contain URIs, this could lead to potentially odd recursive,
self-referential, or meta-level effects if defined poorly.
Thank you for your time,
--
DataPacRat
"Then again, I could be wrong."
Messages in this topic (3)
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3.1. Fiction & language families (was: Is Esperanto Indo-European?)
Posted by: "R A Brown" r...@carolandray.plus.com
Date: Sun Jun 9, 2013 11:36 pm ((PDT))
On 09/06/2013 23:48, Padraic Brown wrote:
> --- On Wed, 6/5/13, R A Brown wrote:
[snip]
>
>> There are odd exceptions, perhaps, like Brithenig. But
>> IMO even to classify that as IE without qualification
>> is misleading. It is a _fictional_ Romancelang.
>
> Here, if I may, you're stepping very close to the very
> barm you wish to avoid lower down.
I did write "perhaps" and underscore "fictional". It seems
to me that _within the fictional world of Ill Bethisad_,
Brithenig is a sister Romance language to French, Italian,
Spanish etc.
Whether other such fictional Romancelangs are equally as
credible is another matter Breathanach, Judajca, Þrjótrunn,
Wenedyk and Xliponian. These IMO go beyond Brithenig into
the realm of 'bogolangs' - but I guess within their own
_fictional_ worlds they are Romancelangs, however
implausible one may regard them.
========================================================
On 10/06/2013 00:52, George Corley wrote:
[snip]
> That strikes me as far too black-and-white. Yes, no
> conlang can be considered part of a language family for
> _research purposes_ -- to do so would be silly and
> meaningless to historical theory.
Absolutely!
> But I see no reason not to recognize that Brithenig is
> _intended_ to fit into a _fictional_ alternate-history
> scenario that puts it in it's alternate-world equivalent
> of the Romance language family. There is nothing about
> calling something a "fictional Indo-European language"
> that anyone here would misconstrue as some claim of
> _really_ having relevance in the real-world Indo-European
> language family.
Quite so.
> I think all of us can distinguish between what is true in
> a fictional world and what is true in the real world.
I would hope so. Also, of course, a fictional world can have
_its own_ language family/families. The most well known
example is Tolkien's Elven languages.
[snip]
> In the same way, Brithenig is, within its own fictional
> world, a Romance language. That has no bearing on
> real-world historical linguistics, and indeed one could
> criticize the method of creating Brithenig as somewhat
> unfounded in historical linguistics, but that doesn't
> change the facts that its author invented within his own
> fictional world.
I agree on all points.
--
Ray
==================================
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
"language
began with half-musical unanalysed expressions
for individual beings and events."
[Otto Jespersen, Progress in Language, 1895]
Messages in this topic (57)
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3.2. Re: Fiction & language families (was: Is Esperanto Indo-European?)
Posted by: "Js Bangs" jas...@gmail.com
Date: Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:24 am ((PDT))
> Whether other such fictional Romancelangs are equally as
> credible is another matter Breathanach, Judajca, Ãrjótrunn,
> Wenedyk and Xliponian. These IMO go beyond Brithenig into
> the realm of 'bogolangs' - but I guess within their own
> _fictional_ worlds they are Romancelangs, however
> implausible one may regard them.
>
Is there some misunderstanding of terminology here? I understood the term
"bogolang" to refer to any a posteriori conlang created by applying the
sound changes and phonology of one language to a different parent language.
It is not meant as a judgement on the plausibility or design of such
language. By this definition, Brithenig is a bogolang just as much as any
of the others, and I'm surprised to see you making a distinction here.
(I hate the term "bogolang", but it seems to have stuck, alas.)
--
JS Bangs
jas...@gmail.com
http://jsbangs.wordpress.com
"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle" -Philo of
Alexandria
Messages in this topic (57)
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4a. Re: Conlang punctuation.
Posted by: "Allison Swenson" jlon...@gmail.com
Date: Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:02 am ((PDT))
I've played around with various punctuation marks in Tirina a bit, but as
in the Géarthnuns example, they just ended up seeming too twee to me. For
romanizations, I typically just use "regular" English punctuation now (with
the exception of commas. I'm not sure how or if Tirina uses commas, so I
simply avoid them).
However, when writing in the Tirina conscript, I use parentheses for
setting off quotes; my idea is that quotations originally were written in
cartouches, and over time it simplified to simple (parentheses). I've toyed
with using the pipe | or a forward slash / for a period, but I've never
been quite satisfied with the way it looks with the rest of the script.
At any rate, from a conculture perspective, the Tirina live "in the real
world", so over time they may have assimilated common punctuation from
human languages. Or at least that's how I'll excuse using English
punctuation when writing in Tirina!
On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 8:15 AM, R A Brown <r...@carolandray.plus.com> wrote:
> On 09/06/2013 11:13, BPJ wrote:
>
>> 2013-06-08 16:23, Leonardo Castro skrev:
>>
>>> Do your conlangs have any punctuation peculiarities?
>>>
>> [snip]
>
>
> Rhodrese (aka Borgonzay) is a fictional Romance language
>> in an alternate timeline, so it uses the normal European
>> punctuation marks. I'm not sure about the details, but it
>> does *not* use the Spanish style inverted exlamation and
>> question marks,
>>
>
> The same will certainly apply to the still nameless British Romance I
> announced on:
> http://www.carolandray.plus.**com/Britannic/index.html<http://www.carolandray.plus.com/Britannic/index.html>
>
> but ...
>
>
> and it uses »outer quotes and inner
>> quotes like this«
>>
>
> Not sure at present how quotes will be shown.
>
> TAKE uses, as one would expect, normal _Greek_ punctuation.
>
> I don't think Dr Outis was over-concerned about punctuation. From what I
> see, his language used the contemporary (i.e. 17th century) western
> European punctuation ;)
>
> Had I not abandoned both Bax (aka Piashi) and Brx, they
> would have developed some eccentricities. Indeed the embryonic
> morphologies I began contain one or two oddities of punctuation:
> http://www.carolandray.plus.**com/Briefscript/Piashi_**Grammar.html<http://www.carolandray.plus.com/Briefscript/Piashi_Grammar.html>
> http://www.carolandray.plus.**com/Briefscript/PhonAndOrthog.**html<http://www.carolandray.plus.com/Briefscript/PhonAndOrthog.html>
>
> --
> Ray
> ==============================**====
> http://www.carolandray.plus.**com <http://www.carolandray.plus.com/>
> ==============================**====
> "language
began with half-musical unanalysed expressions
> for individual beings and events."
> [Otto Jespersen, Progress in Language, 1895]
>
Messages in this topic (11)
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