There are 15 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1.1. Re: Fiction & language families
From: Jörg Rhiemeier
1.2. Re: Fiction & language families
From: Jan Strasser
1.3. What to call 'bogoloangs' (was: Fiction & language families)
From: R A Brown
1.4. Re: What to call 'bogoloangs' (was: Fiction & language families)
From: Roger Mills
1.5. Re: What to call 'bogoloangs' (was: Fiction & language families)
From: R A Brown
2a. Re: Conlang punctuation.
From: Matthew George
2b. Re: Conlang punctuation.
From: Anthony Miles
2c. Re: Conlang punctuation.
From: Garth Wallace
3.1. Re: Is Esperanto Indo-European?
From: Matthew George
4a. Re: adposition cases
From: neo gu
4b. Re: adposition cases
From: neo gu
4c. Re: adposition cases
From: Anthony Miles
5. Re: What to call 'bogolangs' (was: Fiction & language families)
From: Jörg Rhiemeier
6a. Ejective Consonants a sign of Mountain Living
From: John Q
6b. Re: Ejective Consonants a sign of Mountain Living
From: BPJ
Messages
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1.1. Re: Fiction & language families
Posted by: "Jörg Rhiemeier" joerg_rhieme...@web.de
Date: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:15 pm ((PDT))
Hallo conlangers!
On Tuesday 11 June 2013 09:38:02 R A Brown wrote:
> On 11/06/2013 02:07, Adam Walker wrote:
>
> > I can't help thinking of graft as in bribery and official
> > corruption when I hear this term.
> >
> :)
> :
> > I'm supposing that the
> > intent is graft as in grafting trees or vines. But some
> > how I can't get my mind to want to go there.
Yes. I was thinking of grafting trees or vines.
> I guess that's one possible reason the term has not caught
> on. Also, of course, one is not grafting one _language_ on
> the root-stock of another language (as one might graft a
> tree or vine on the root-stock of another); one is merely
> applying the _phonology_ of one language to that of another
> (and there's more to language than phonology).
True. It is only the sound changes of one language that are
"grafted" on another, so the image of "grafting" as a gardener
does it is not perfectly apt.
> It's an odd idea, and it seems (Vulgar) Latin is the
> language that generally undergoes this transmogrification:
> e.g. let's take (Vulgar) Latin and apply the phonology of
> Tamil to it - et voilà, we have the lost language of the
> descendants of the Roman colony established on the cost of
> southern India ;)
Yes. Many romlangs are of this kind. Sound changes of some
language are applied to Latin, without thinking whether there
is any plausibility in that. It may be an entertaining game
to do so, but nothing else.
> What to call such conlangs. I agree 'bogolang' is not the
> best of terms; but xenophonic conlang is too much of a
> mouthful.
"Xenophonic" also sounds like "alien phonetics" (as in non-
humanoid alien intelligent beings), which is not what is meant
here at all.
On Tuesday 11 June 2013 16:23:53 R A Brown wrote:
> On 11/06/2013 14:26, Muke Tever wrote:
> > On Tue, 11 Jun 2013 01:38:02 -0600, R A Brown wrote:
> [snip]
>
> >> What to call such conlangs. I agree 'bogolang' is not
> >> the best of terms; but xenophonic conlang is too much
> >> of a mouthful.
> >
> > I have a sudden urge to start calling them
> > "changelings", as though the original infant language was
> > stolen away and replaced it with a young Latin (or
> > whatever) to be raised in its place.
>
> I like the idea - but I guess to let it live happily with
> all the MONOSYLLABLE+lang terms, _changelang_ perhaps is
> perhaps better.
>
> > ("Change-" also bringing to mind the nigh-obligatory
> > Grand Master Plan accompanying such projects.)
>
> It certainly does. Yep, IMO changelang is so much better
> than 'bogolang.'
Well, _changelang_ could be any conlang for which the author
drew up sound changes and applied them to a protolanguage.
But there already is an established term for that: _diachronic
conlang_. "Bogolangs" are obviously a subset of diachronic
conlangs, characterized by both the protolanguage and the sound
changes being a posteriori.
--
... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
http://www.joerg-rhiemeier.de/Conlang/index.html
"Bêsel asa Éam, a Éam atha cvanthal a cvanth atha Éamal." - SiM 1:1
Messages in this topic (77)
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1.2. Re: Fiction & language families
Posted by: "Jan Strasser" cedh_audm...@yahoo.de
Date: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:19 pm ((PDT))
I would like to suggest the terms "mimiclang" (as one language mimics
another in terms of phonology) or "blendlang". The first of these
captures the essence of the bogo/graft/whatever type of conlangs quite
well, and the second of these sounds really good while still describing
them better than most other suggestions discussed so far IMO.
Jan
> Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2013 21:15:50 +0200
> From: Jörg Rhiemeier
> Subject: Re: Fiction & language families
>
> Hallo conlangers!
>
> On Tuesday 11 June 2013 09:38:02 R A Brown wrote:
>
>> >On 11/06/2013 02:07, Adam Walker wrote:
>> >
>>> > >I can't help thinking of graft as in bribery and official
>>> > >corruption when I hear this term.
>>> > >
>> > :)
>> > :
>>> > >I'm supposing that the
>>> > >intent is graft as in grafting trees or vines. But some
>>> > >how I can't get my mind to want to go there.
> Yes. I was thinking of grafting trees or vines.
>
>> >I guess that's one possible reason the term has not caught
>> >on. Also, of course, one is not grafting one_language_ on
>> >the root-stock of another language (as one might graft a
>> >tree or vine on the root-stock of another); one is merely
>> >applying the_phonology_ of one language to that of another
>> >(and there's more to language than phonology).
> True. It is only the sound changes of one language that are
> "grafted" on another, so the image of "grafting" as a gardener
> does it is not perfectly apt.
>
>> >It's an odd idea, and it seems (Vulgar) Latin is the
>> >language that generally undergoes this transmogrification:
>> >e.g. let's take (Vulgar) Latin and apply the phonology of
>> >Tamil to it - et voilà, we have the lost language of the
>> >descendants of the Roman colony established on the cost of
>> >southern India ;)
> Yes. Many romlangs are of this kind. Sound changes of some
> language are applied to Latin, without thinking whether there
> is any plausibility in that. It may be an entertaining game
> to do so, but nothing else.
>
>> >What to call such conlangs. I agree 'bogolang' is not the
>> >best of terms; but xenophonic conlang is too much of a
>> >mouthful.
> "Xenophonic" also sounds like "alien phonetics" (as in non-
> humanoid alien intelligent beings), which is not what is meant
> here at all.
>
> On Tuesday 11 June 2013 16:23:53 R A Brown wrote:
>
>> >On 11/06/2013 14:26, Muke Tever wrote:
>>> > >On Tue, 11 Jun 2013 01:38:02 -0600, R A Brown wrote:
>> >[snip]
>> >
>>>> > >>What to call such conlangs. I agree 'bogolang' is not
>>>> > >>the best of terms; but xenophonic conlang is too much
>>>> > >>of a mouthful.
>>> > >
>>> > >I have a sudden urge to start calling them
>>> > >"changelings", as though the original infant language was
>>> > >stolen away and replaced it with a young Latin (or
>>> > >whatever) to be raised in its place.
>> >
>> >I like the idea - but I guess to let it live happily with
>> >all the MONOSYLLABLE+lang terms,_changelang_ perhaps is
>> >perhaps better.
>> >
>>> > >("Change-" also bringing to mind the nigh-obligatory
>>> > >Grand Master Plan accompanying such projects.)
>> >
>> >It certainly does. Yep, IMO changelang is so much better
>> >than 'bogolang.'
> Well,_changelang_ could be any conlang for which the author
> drew up sound changes and applied them to a protolanguage.
> But there already is an established term for that: _diachronic
> conlang_. "Bogolangs" are obviously a subset of diachronic
> conlangs, characterized by both the protolanguage and the sound
> changes being a posteriori.
Messages in this topic (77)
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1.3. What to call 'bogoloangs' (was: Fiction & language families)
Posted by: "R A Brown" r...@carolandray.plus.com
Date: Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:51 am ((PDT))
On 11/06/2013 20:15, Jörg Rhiemeier wrote:
> Hallo conlangers!
>
> On Tuesday 11 June 2013 09:38:02 R A Brown wrote:
[snip]
>>
>> It certainly does. Yep, IMO changelang is so much
>> better than 'bogolang.'
>
> Well, _changelang_ could be any conlang for which the
> author drew up sound changes and applied them to a
> protolanguage. But there already is an established term
> for that: _diachronic conlang_.
True.
> "Bogolangs" are obviously a subset of diachronic
> conlangs, characterized by both the protolanguage and the
> sound changes being a posteriori.
True also. Well, then ...
-------------------------------------------------------------
On 11/06/2013 14:26, Muke Tever wrote:
[snip]
> ... ("Change-" also bringing to mind the
> nigh-obligatory Grand Master Plan accompanying such
> projects.)
Very true - the "Grand Master Plan" seems (well-nigh)
obligatory for these languages. So how about _granmplangs_ ;)
--
Ray
==================================
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
"language … began with half-musical unanalysed expressions
for individual beings and events."
[Otto Jespersen, Progress in Language, 1895]
Messages in this topic (77)
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1.4. Re: What to call 'bogoloangs' (was: Fiction & language families)
Posted by: "Roger Mills" romi...@yahoo.com
Date: Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:52 am ((PDT))
--- On Wed, 6/12/13, R A Brown <r...@carolandray.plus.com> wrote:
On 11/06/2013 14:26, Muke Tever wrote:
[snip]
> ... ("Change-" also bringing to mind the
> nigh-obligatory Grand Master Plan accompanying such
> projects.)
Very true - the "Grand Master Plan" seems (well-nigh)
obligatory for these languages. So how about _granmplangs_
================================
Pronounced ['græmplæNz] I assume? :-)))) Nice hint at their ancestry..........
--
Ray
==================================
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
"language … began with half-musical unanalysed expressions
for individual beings and events."
[Otto Jespersen, Progress in Language, 1895]
Messages in this topic (77)
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1.5. Re: What to call 'bogoloangs' (was: Fiction & language families)
Posted by: "R A Brown" r...@carolandray.plus.com
Date: Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:51 am ((PDT))
On 12/06/2013 11:52, Roger Mills wrote:
> --- On Wed, 6/12/13, R A Brown
> <r...@carolandray.plus.com> wrote: On 11/06/2013 14:26,
> Muke Tever wrote: [snip]
>
>> ... ("Change-" also bringing to mind the
>> nigh-obligatory Grand Master Plan accompanying such
>> projects.)
>
> Very true - the "Grand Master Plan" seems (well-nigh)
> obligatory for these languages. So how about
> _granmplangs_ ================================
>
> Pronounced ['græmplæNz] I assume? :-)))) Nice hint at
> their ancestry..........
>
Yes - in fact I meant to write: _gramplanags_ - do know how
that intrusive -n- got in there. Maybe it just insisted on
it ;)
--
Ray
==================================
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
"language … began with half-musical unanalysed expressions
for individual beings and events."
[Otto Jespersen, Progress in Language, 1895]
Messages in this topic (77)
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2a. Re: Conlang punctuation.
Posted by: "Matthew George" matt....@gmail.com
Date: Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:54 pm ((PDT))
In eTaliunar, the 'question mark' is a glyph that comes before the
sentence. There's no tonality of any kind, but several marks for prosody.
Matt G.
Messages in this topic (14)
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2b. Re: Conlang punctuation.
Posted by: "Anthony Miles" mamercu...@gmail.com
Date: Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:10 pm ((PDT))
>Do your conlangs have any punctuation peculiarities?
>For contextualization:
>www.quicksilvertranslate.com/570/some-punctuation-peculiarities
I've been debating the punctuation in Siye - I "know" that there is a brief
pause between the subject, object, prepositional, and verb phrases, and _I_ can
tell where one phrase ends and another begins, but I cannot decide whether to
use a comma to separate the phrases. After all, I wrote the text, so I can't
give it an unbiased examination. I've been using commas after conditional and
temporal phrase, but anything with a coordinative suffix -(h)(a)m, (X-and) (Y)
I have been leaving un-comma'd. The native script doesn't use punctuation, so
that's no help.
Nagifi Fasuxa has its own orthography, with both square and circular forms - I
should draw some and scan it someday - but it separates words rather than
clauses.
>Até mais!
>Leonardo
Messages in this topic (14)
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2c. Re: Conlang punctuation.
Posted by: "Garth Wallace" gwa...@gmail.com
Date: Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:00 am ((PDT))
On Sat, Jun 8, 2013 at 7:23 AM, Leonardo Castro <leolucas1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Do your conlangs have any punctuation peculiarities?
>
> For contextualization:
> www.quicksilvertranslate.com/570/some-punctuation-peculiarities
One of the few things I know about Völde (a sketch I've never done
much with) is that in its script, punctuation marks are tails attached
to the horizontal word-bar.
Messages in this topic (14)
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3.1. Re: Is Esperanto Indo-European?
Posted by: "Matthew George" matt....@gmail.com
Date: Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:07 pm ((PDT))
On Wed, Jun 5, 2013 at 1:54 AM, H. S. Teoh <hst...@quickfur.ath.cx> wrote:
> Ah, but the thing is, you wouldn't *know* when you've found the Complete
> Guide, because its countless variants, corruptions, and distortions
> thereof are present in the library too! In order to be able to tell the
> Complete Guide from all of its misleading imitations, you pretty much
> have to be able to write it yourself, which defeats its very purpose! :)
>
As Borges pointed out, the language the books in the Library are written in
is only presumed to be the one the people looking through it understand.
With the right language, any book is the Guide; so, every book is the Guide.
Matt "omnisignification" G.
Messages in this topic (77)
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4a. Re: adposition cases
Posted by: "neo gu" qiihos...@gmail.com
Date: Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:51 pm ((PDT))
On Mon, 10 Jun 2013 22:02:58 -0500, Eric Christopherson <ra...@charter.net>
wrote:
>On Jun 9, 2013, at 8:29 PM, neo gu <qiihos...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know of a natlang which marks spatial cases (locative, allative,
>> ablative, perlative) on the adposition rather than the noun? It seems like
>> this would be reasonable if the adpositions were originally nouns (although
>> I guess the object of the adposition would have to be marked genitive?).
>
>I've only heard of cases where this is flipped around; i.e. you have several
>locative words (I'm not sure what technical term there is for those) which are
>at least somewhat nounlike, and they can be marked with a spatial or locative
>case. E.g.
>
>house-LOC
>"at/in/on[/etc.] the house"
>
>house *inside*-LOC
>"inside the house"
>
>house *beside*-LOC
>"beside the house"
>
>house *outside*-LOC
>"outside the house"
>
>where the words surrounded by asterisks are noun-like locative words and -LOC
>is a general locative/spatial case. You can also use this schema with other,
>more specific, spatial cases, e.g.
>
>house *inside*-ABL
>"from inside the house"
>
>house *beside*-ALL
>"to the side of the house"
>
>house *outside*-CIR
>"around the outside of the house [CIR=circumlative; not sure how common this
>case is or whether there's a better term for it]"
That's what I had in mind.
>And the "house" word could be marked for case itself, and/or have their own
>adpositions, e.g. genitive (as you alluded to). Maybe speakers could even
>choose from a few cases/adpositions for the "house" word, with or without
>changes in meaning.
>
Messages in this topic (12)
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4b. Re: adposition cases
Posted by: "neo gu" qiihos...@gmail.com
Date: Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:57 pm ((PDT))
On Tue, 11 Jun 2013 00:35:45 -0400, Douglas Koller <douglaskol...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>> Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 19:37:17 -0700
>> From: elemti...@yahoo.com
>> Subject: Re: adposition cases
>> To: conl...@listserv.brown.edu
>
>> --- On Mon, 6/10/13, neo gu <qiihos...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > >> Does anyone know of a natlang which marks spatial cases (locative,
>> > >> allative, ablative, perlative) on the adposition rather than the
>> > >> noun? It seems like this would be reasonable if the adpositions were
>> > >> originally nouns (although I guess the object of the adposition would
>> > >> have to be marked genitive?).
>
>> > > Wouldn't those generally not be considered cases in that situation?
>
>> > I suppose they wouldn't be called cases; but what would they be called?
>
>> Perhaps "declined adpositions"? A la "conjugated preverbs". Same concept
>> really.
>
>If you couldn't get to the link I posted, just googling "Hungarian
>postpositions" should suffice. As one example:
>
>mellett - next to, beside
>mell頭 (to) beside
>mell? from beside
Thanks, that's what I was asking.
>They follow their nouns (postpositions, quelle surprise -- a hẠmellett - next
>to the house), but you can also glom possessive suffixes onto these where
>English would use a pronoun:
>
>mellettem - beside me
>mell魠- (to) beside me
>mell? - from beside me
That's also useful for the current project etc.
>I don't know what the indigenous term for these is (n鶵t, but English, they
>just calls 'em postpositions.
>
>Kou
>
>
>
Messages in this topic (12)
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4c. Re: adposition cases
Posted by: "Anthony Miles" mamercu...@gmail.com
Date: Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:50 pm ((PDT))
I'll be NOMAIL from Sunday on for two weeks, but this is a sketch I found in my
notes, dated July 23, 2012, and fleshed out in the last week.
Ngiæra is a language spoken somewhere in the Polycosm, possibly somewhere on
Mermish world, by 'humans'. I have written the grammar as a story rather than a
traditional grammar.
Phonological Revision of Ngiæra (C072312)
Consonants
[m] /m/
[n] /n/
[ŋ] /ng/
[p] /p/
[t] /t/
[k] /k/
[s] /s/
[j] /i/
[r] /r/
Vowels
High
i /i/, /j/
Mid
e /e/
o /o/, /o_a/
Low
æ /æ/
a /a/. / @ /
Ngiæra (derived from the verb ngiær, 'to speak') is a split-ergative language
along SAP lines. Its syntax is AVP.
Ngir tean mær.
Man see woman
The man sees the woman.
Iiar tean mær.
I see woman.
I see the woman.
Ngir tean iiar.
Man see I.
The man sees me.
The nominative personal pronouns are:
iiar, iæik - 1st person singular
/iiar/ is the older of the 1st person singular forms and much rarer
iook - 2nd person singular
iot - 1st person plural exclusive
ioor - 1st person plural inclusive
The ergative personal pronouns are:
iei - 2nd person plural
ioæon - 3rd person singular
ioap - 3rd person plural
The detransitive marker /næim/ changes an ergative agent into an absolutive
subject and an accusative patient into a nominative subject.
Ngir tean mær. The man sees the woman. (A-V-P)
Næim tean ngir. The man sees. (Antipass-V-S)
Tean mær. The woman is seen (V-S)
Ngir tean ioor. The man sees us. (A-V-P)
Ioor næim tean. We are seen. (S-Pass-V)
Iook tean ioor. You see us. (A-V-P)
Iook tean. You see. (S-V)
Derivational Morphology
The derivational morphology of Ngiæra is relatively simple. A First Form lexeme
in Ngiæra has the shape C1(G1)V(G2)C2. This is the only permissible shape. A
First Form nominal is a stative or abstract noun, while a First Form verbal is
usually a transitive verb. C may be any consonant native to Ngiæra. V may be
any vowel. G1 may be /i/, /o/ or /r/. G2 may be /i/, /o/, or /a/. The Second
Form is derived from the First Form by taking G2 and reduplicating it as a
vowel called V2, after C2. If there is no glide in that position, V provides
the vowel. The Second Form derives a noun of agent or action from the First
Form verbal and and an adjective from the First Form Nominal. V2 is identical
to V with the following exception: the V2 of /æ/ is /a/. Thus the name of the
language, Ngiæra, is the Second Form of ngiær, 'to speak', while the word for
masculine, /ngiri/, is the Second Form of /ngir/ 'man'. The Third Form derives
V2 from G1 (or V if there is no G1), and prefixes it to the First Form. V2 is
identical to V with the following exception: the V2 of /r/ is /a/. The Third
Form derives an adverb or preposition from a verb, and a stative,
intransitive, or 'applicative' verb from a noun. An adverb in Ngiæra covers
English adverbs and prepositions. Thus the Third Form of /tean/, 'to see',
/etean/, is the evidential marker, and the Third Form of /ngiæar/, 'to give',
/ingiæar/, is the indirect object marker 'to'. The Third Form of /ngræs/,
'greenness', /angræs/, is intransitive and means 'to flourish'. The Third Form
of /rooop/, 'criminal', /orooop/, is transitive and means 'to commit a crime
(of type X)'. The type is the direct object of the verb.
Tenses
Tense in Ngiæra is optional and generally indicated by a specific time word,
There is, however, an auxiliary verb /ngoær/, 'to wait'.
Iook ngoær saak rooop.
2sg wait find criminal.
You (sg) will find the criminal.
Itin iook saak rooop.
Tomorrow 2sg find criminal
You will find the criminal.
Omot iook saak rooop.
Yesterday 2sg find criminal
You found the criminal.
The copula in Ngiæra is /miii/.
Mær miii poongo. The woman is a wife.
If the subject of the copular is a pronoun and the predicate is a Second Form
nominal, a special conjugation is used, derived from the Third Form nominals.
Iiiar poongo. I am a wife.
*Aiæik poongo. I am a wife.
Oiook poongo. You (sg) are a wife.
Oioæon poongo. (S)he is a wife.
Oiot poongo. We (excl.) are wives.
Oioor poongo. We (incl.) are wives.
Iiei poongo. You (pl) are wives.
Oioap poongo. They are wives.
With a Third Form nominal as the predicate, the pronoun is a First Form nominal.
Iæik iting. I am sad.
*Iiar iting. I am sad.
Iook iting. You (sg) are sad
Ioæon iting. (S)he is sad.
Iot iting. We (excl.) are sad.
Ioor iting. We (incl.) are sad.
Iei iting. You (pl) are sad.
Ioap iting. They are sad.
Modifiers, including the optional plural marker, follow their heads.
Ngir moanga miii rooop (moanga).
Man many COP criminal many
Many men are criminals.
Poongo iiara miii mær neopo.
Wife 1sg COP woman beautiful
My wife is a beautiful woman.
Reduplication indicates indefinite plurality
Omot kroapa meim rooop rooop.
The judge has hanged all sorts of criminals.
[Concultural Note: 'hanged' here does not mean 'ordered someone else to hang
them'. The judge is truly judge, jury, and executioner.]
The 3rd person pronouns /ioæon/ and /ioap/ can be used as demonstratives in
their Second Forms.
Omot rooop ioapa orooop etean nepe.
Yesterday criminal 3pl commit.crime.of.type.X EVID taker
These criminals clearly committed the crime of taking.
These criminals are thieves.
Prepositions precede their modifiers. Indirect objects take the preposition
/ingiæar/:
Iæik mres ioap ingiæar kroapa.
I give 3pl indirect.object judge
I give them to the judge.
I hand them over to judge.
Kroapa kroap ioap oroæk koæon.
Judge judge 3pl toward death.
The judge sentenced them to death.
Negative particles follow the verb.
Ioæon kroap ioap eker akæong koæon (ioapa).
3sg judge 3pl NEG away.from death 3pl
He did not pardon them from their death sentences.
Isik isik meim ioap.
morning morning hang 3pl
In the morning (the judge) hanged them.
Possession is indicated by the preposition /epek/, from /pek/,' to possess'
Poongo sanga epek rooop iting otom
wife lack GEN criminal be.sad be.excessive
The widows of the criminals were very sad.
Direct speech is reported as it was originally said.
Poongo sanga ioæono ngiær ingiæar kroapa. Kese iæiki okoæon. Iæik miar eker
ngiæar seim ingiæar kiein iæiki.
Wife lack 3sg speak to judge. Husband 1sg be.dead. 1Sg can NEG give food to
child 1sg
This widow said to the judge; “My husband is dead. I cannot feed my children.
To form a conditional statement, the Third Form of /teng/, 'to do' is placed
before each clause.
Kroapa ngiær ingiæar ioæon. Poongo iæiki miar eker poong. Eteng iook roong miii
mær mii iook poong, eteng iæik ngiæar seim ingiæar kiein iooko.
judge speak to 3sg / wife 1sg can NEG bear.children / if 2sg make be woman REL
2sg bear.children, then 1sg give food to child 2sg
The judge said to her. My wife cannot bear children. If you become my mistress,
I will feed your children.
The optative mood is indicated by the First Form verbal of /nrir/:
Poongo sanga ngiær ingiæar ioæon. Iæik nrir eker roong miii mær iooko. Eteng
iook nrir ngiæar otom seim ingiæar kiein mæra moanga iæiki, eteng ioap roong
miii inrir maer mii ioap poong. Eteng iook teng ioæon, iæik miar ngiæar seim
ingiæar iæik.
Wife lack speak to 3sg / 1sg can NEG make be woman 2sg / if 2sg want give very
food to child woman many 1sg , then 3pl make be OPT woman REL 3sg bear.children
/ if 2sg do 3sg, 1sg can give food to 1sg
The widow said to him. I do not want to be your mistress. If you want to feed
my daughters, let them become your mistresses. If you do this, I can feed
myself.
Messages in this topic (12)
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5. Re: What to call 'bogolangs' (was: Fiction & language families)
Posted by: "Jörg Rhiemeier" joerg_rhieme...@web.de
Date: Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:20 pm ((PDT))
Hallo conlangers!
On Wednesday 12 June 2013 08:17:21 Jan Strasser wrote:
> I would like to suggest the terms "mimiclang" (as one language mimics
> another in terms of phonology) or "blendlang". The first of these
> captures the essence of the bogo/graft/whatever type of conlangs quite
> well, and the second of these sounds really good while still describing
> them better than most other suggestions discussed so far IMO.
"Blendlang" is nice.
On Wednesday 12 June 2013 13:51:47 R A Brown wrote:
> On 12/06/2013 11:52, Roger Mills wrote:
> > --- On Wed, 6/12/13, R A Brown
> > <r...@carolandray.plus.com> wrote: On 11/06/2013 14:26,
> > Muke Tever wrote: [snip]
> >
> >> ... ("Change-" also bringing to mind the
> >> nigh-obligatory Grand Master Plan accompanying such
> >> projects.)
> >
> > Very true - the "Grand Master Plan" seems (well-nigh)
> > obligatory for these languages. So how about
> > granmplangs ================================
> >
> > Pronounced ['græmplæNz] I assume? :-)))) Nice hint at
> > their ancestry..........
>
> Yes - in fact I meant to write: gramplanags - do know how
> that intrusive -n- got in there. Maybe it just insisted on
> it ;)
"Gramplang" is not a bad idea. Indeed, these languages have
"Grand Master Plans", more so than other, more creative
diachronic conlangs. Of course, I have sound change lists for
my Hesperic languages, but I do not call these "Grand Master
Plans", but simply "sound change lists", as such lists are
called in real-world historical linguistics; and I do not
apply them mechanically.
Of course, the term "Grand Master Plan" was coined, as far as
I know, by Andrew Smith for the sound change list of Brithenig.
But as you say, Brithenig is not a typical "bogolang" (though
the inventor of the term "bogolang" classified it as one), as
the sound changes are not mechanically copied from Welsh but
creatively adapted. That would, however, mean that the language
with the "original" GMP would strictly spoken not really be a
"gramplang". Oh well.
--
... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
http://www.joerg-rhiemeier.de/Conlang/index.html
"Bêsel asa Éam, a Éam atha cvanthal a cvanth atha Éamal." - SiM 1:1
Messages in this topic (1)
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6a. Ejective Consonants a sign of Mountain Living
Posted by: "John Q" jquijad...@gmail.com
Date: Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:32 pm ((PDT))
Well here's an interesting new theory -- Ejective consonants are apparently
far more likely to be found in languages spoken in or near mountain ranges:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/10117037/Living-in-the-mountains-can-change-the-way-you-speak.html
--John Q.
Messages in this topic (2)
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6b. Re: Ejective Consonants a sign of Mountain Living
Posted by: "BPJ" b...@melroch.se
Date: Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:20 am ((PDT))
2013-06-13 08:32, John Q skrev:
> Well here's an interesting new theory -- Ejective consonants are apparently
> far more likely to be found in languages spoken in or near mountain ranges:
>
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/10117037/Living-in-the-mountains-can-change-the-way-you-speak.html
>
> --John Q.
>
Like Lakhota? >;-)
(Sorry, couldn't help myself...)
/bpj
Messages in this topic (2)
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