A radio ad about the attack was
done with Jim Ennes during a congressional campaign last year. It was
played on Cincinnati radio stations during Rush Limbaugh, Dr. Laura
and Michael Savage radio shows, and during local talk radio
shows.
You can
listen to it at http://www.RealNews247.com/condit_for_congress_2002.htm
/s/ Nick
Landholt,
513-481-1992
-----Original Message-----
From: William Shannon
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 6:43 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [CTRL] USS Liberty Survivor Replies To Critic
-Caveat Lector- http://www.ussliberty.org/lentini2.txt
Liberty survivor Joe Lentini replies to a critic
who email is appended below::
Dear Mr. Brown:
I was on board the USS Liberty on June 8, 1967,
and I can tell you without any doubt, the recount
of the attack in the Ennes book is accurate and
that there is much more to this issue than you are
obviously aware.
First, let me thank you for caring enough to even
look into it. So many Americans know nothing
about the attack because of the politics involved,
and so many others have a dual allegiance to the
US and Israel and, when it comes to any problems
between the two countries, they always lean
towards Israel and so cannot see what happened in
1967 or, for that matter, in more recent history
(e.g., Pollard spy case and the slaughter of
Palestinians).
There is an enormous amount of material which is
considered documented and accurate by both this
country and Israel which clearly brings into
question the accidental attack claim by the State
of Israel. There have been discoveries over the
last 35 years that have revealed attacking Israeli
pilots identifying our ship and being told to
attack anyway, identified US military intelligence
personnel who were privy to various messages and
transcripts clearly indicating the attack was a
coordinated effort, and the sworn testimony of the
survivors who, after all, were there. You may
locate much of this material, and see the
documentation for yourself, by simply doing a
search on the Internet for "USS Liberty" and
following all links. You will see many sites with
accurate information, and some with not so
accurate information, and many with a clear bias
towards protecting Israel's reputation.
As for Jay Cristol's book - have not read it
totally yet, but I can tell you without any doubt
that much of his information and argument for the
attack being an accident is based on half truths
and highly questionable Israeli reports.
Let me give you something to think about, I hope,
and something that will encourage you to look
deeper into this historical moment.
1. The ships logs clearly indicate tracking first
the torpedo boats and then the high-speed aircraft
passing over them, both on a direct line to the
USS Liberty.
2. The planes did not circle the ship trying to
identify the ship, but, instead, approached the
ship bow-on and came in shooting.
3. The planes were flying well below their top
speed and many survivors who were fighting fires
from the napalm and otherwise were topside
performing assigned damage control noted that
these planes were unmarked - this at a time when
Israel was in control of the skies and had no
reason to paint out the Star of David and other
clearly Israeli markings.
4. A high ranking Israeli officer was interviewed
several years later and clear states that Israel
had identified the USS Liberty by June 7, 1967.
This is consistent with the several documented
overflights by Israeli slow-flying aircraft on the
day prior to the attack which were clearly taking
our picture for identification purposes.
5. Our flag was flying until the jets shot it
away. We then hoisted another, and that was also
shot away. Finally, we ran up the huge holiday
flag - one of these shot-up flags is on display at
the museum at the NSA Cryptologic Museum at Ft.
Meade, Maryland. We were slowly sailing into the
wind so the flag was standing out at all times
and, while the pilots might not have seen it in a
bow-on or stern-on attack posture, they certainly
saw it as they crisscrossed the ship, attacking
from both port and starboard. Please note that
these pilots saw well enough to hit the four 50
cal machine gun mounts with at least two rockets
each, put at least one rocket through all topside
hatches/doorways, hit all antenna pods with two or
more rockets, blew up the two small boats on
board, and hit the only gasoline drum on board.
Again, their speed allowed this degree of accuracy
and they obviously had knowledge of our strategic
targets.
6. One of the Israeli torpedo boat captains was
also interviewed several years later and he said
that, after one of the five torpedoes had hit the
ship, he saw the colors of our flag and thought he
had hit a Russian ship. Kind of puts a kink in the
Israeli claim of June 1967 that we had no flag,
doesn't it.
7. Cristol and Israel both give credibility to
the Israeli claim of 1967 that the torpedo boats
misread their radar to the point that they thought
the "unknown" ship off the Sinai Peninsula was
traveling in excess of 20 knots and that local
Israeli field commanders reported shelling of
their position from that area of the Med.
Possible? Sure! But take the time to look a
little deeper please - The torpedo boats
identified us as the El Quisar (sp?), an Egyptian
troop and animal carrier 1)known to be in an
Egyptian port at that time, 2) unable to make even
8 knots, and 3) with absolutely no armament
whatsoever. It gets better! This ship is about
2/3 the size of the USS Liberty, and has none of
the topside antenna equipment, did not have a huge
satellite dish on its stern, and was not painted
USN grey with US information on both sides of the
bow. The ship they said they thought we were
could not go the speed they say they mistakenly
thought we were going and had no means to attack a
nything. Further, the Liberty had only 4 50 cal
machine and was also unable to shell anything from
its position some 13 miles offshore.
8. There are documents available from the LBJ
Library that clearly indicate that LBJ wanted to
seek reelection, did not want to offend this
country's Jewish lobby, and had specific
recommendations from his political advisors to
stay at arm's length from anything having to do
with the USS Liberty.
9. There are a number of plausible reasons for
the attack, and
1) the accurate time-line of that day indicate
that, in fact, taking the Golan Heights was not
known until it was accomplished.
2) You might also find it interesting that Moshe
Dyan, the head of the IDF at that time, said in an
on-camera interview that this expansion had
nothing to do with state security, but was, in his
words, executed to take this property solely to
increase the power and financial wealth of the
political and some of the military leaders of that
day.
3) There is also the very real issue of the added
US support that would come if the US and the world
thought a US ship was sunk by the Arab States -
and the attack came very close to accomplishing
that very thing. We were silenced in the first
minutes of the attack and only got word out
because our technicians were able to rig a
temporary antenna under fire, an antenna that had
never worked before but was made usable by their
efforts and by a partial roc ket hit that somehow
"fixed" whatever the initial problem was. Without
that "word" getting out, they would have sunk us
with all hands and, I suppose, planted some
evidence that the deed was done by Arab State
vessels/planes.
4) Israeli-documented slaughter of Arab prisoners
at El Arish (sp?) that day could have contributed
to the "justification" for the attack. Maybe not,
but the fact that this slaughter occurred is
documented by statements from Israeli soldiers,
so, who knows. There may be other related
possibilities, but the point is that reasons exist
and there is much more than reasonable doubt that
the attack was a pre-planned, coordinated air and
sea attack which took 34 American lives.
By the way, if you wish to have any credibility in
discussions about this subject, I suggest that you
do not refer to sworn testimony of survivors who
were there that day as "hearsay!" As for Jim
Ennes being wounded so everything he said must
have been second hand, simply not so, and to
suggest that does him and other survivors a great
dis-service and indicates that you have not
researched this very well. Remember, the Captain
was also wounded and I can personally promise you,
his story was not "hearsay" and was very accurate.
Oh yes, there are many men present that day who
saw for themselves the Israeli torpedo boats
deliberately machine gun the life rafts and we
have pictures taken just after the attack ended
(about the same time as it became known we got
word out to the fleet about the attack)which
clearly show all life raft positions empty or with
destroyed rafts clearly visible.
One other fact you might find interesting which
relates back to the jets - their speed that day
allowed them to target fire hoses in use by damage
control personnel, and the men using them, during
the attack. Again, multiple eyewitness accounts
are documented concerning this and the use of
"burning jelly" canisters dropped on our decks.
If you truly care about the truth, take the time
to look into this more deeply. Consider the
growing number of senior military and political
people who publicly denounce this attack as
deliberate. Consider the document facts, many of
which are agreed to by both sides. Consider the
contradictions in the "official" story over these
many years, and consider Israel's history, short
though it may be, which is full of examples of
drastic military actions against friend and foe
alike, military and civilian, in the name of
Israel's security.
Finally, although it has nothing to do directly
with the attack on the USS Liberty, I mention the
Pollard case. Strange that you seem to be
defending him when it is documented fact that
Israel paid him to spy against his country. Let
me put it another way, Israel, our "friend," paid
him to spy against their claimed ally, the US. Is
it really so hard to believe that this same "ally"
found it to be in their best interests to attempt
to sink a US intelligence ship with all hands back
in 1967?
Cristol's book, and several others by Israeli
writers or friends of Israel, reaches the wrong
conclusions. It does not take much more that a
quick look at the documented facts of this case to
realize that the Israeli claim of an "accident"
fails to hold up. I hope you will take the time
to dig deeper and, keeping an open mind about this
subject, consider all possibilities.
Again, thank you for your interest in this
historical event.
Joseph C. Lentini
CTOC USN-ret
USS Liberty Survivor
======================================================
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Maxwell Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 22:02:05 -0700
Subject: Another opinion
I have just completed reading the book by A. Jay
Cristol, The Liberty Incident and I have to
frankly say he beyond any doubt shows the attack
on the Liberty to be mistaken identity. He also
shows how Jim Ennes's book was based on hearsay.
Mr. Ennes has made some wild claims and outright
lies. One lis is how the Israeli motor torpedo
boats did not have any identification. However
William McGonagle testified he ordered the gunners
not to fire on the boat as hesaw the Israeli flag.
Also he says the attack jets were flying so fast
it would have been impossible to detect any
markings on it, such as the Star of David. He also
shows how to see the American flag, you have to
have been within a certain distance and not flying
past a certain speed. yet you continue to claim
that they "Must" have seen the flag.
Also Ennes claims that then US Senator William
Fullbright said that Lyndon Johnson ordered him to
cover up the attack. One problem. Fullbright
denies this and Ennes hears it 3rd party.
Ennes was injured at the beginning of the attack,
thus relies on full hearsay.
Your theories on why the ship was attacked are
nonexistent. The theory that Israel didn't want
the US to know about their imminent invasion of
Syria is dead and confirmed by John Borne, as
proof is shown that Israel told the US they were
invading Syria hours before the Liberty was
attacked. The NEW theory, and their appears to be
a new one every week is the alleged Israeli
massacre of Egyptian POW's. Considering that Egypt
NEVER accused Israeli of this and has had the
Sinai for 20 years and yet has found no mass
graves, makes that theory useless. Also it was
said that the Liberty intercepted messages of
Israeli killing those POW's. One problem, the
claim of a POW massacre was that it took place on
June 7, one day BEFORE the Liberty reached Alpha
Point. Do you have any other theories to
propagate?
Lastly, Mr. Ennes is now in full anti-Jewish
conspiracy mode. He said he has friends in
Teheran, Iran. What a shock. Iran, a nation that
hates Jews, a nations that blew up the Israeli
embassy in Argentina and has executed Jews on
alleged spying charges, is pro-Liberty. Also have
we forgotten on how Iran financed the attack of
the US Marines in Lebanon in 1983? Also the
interviewer mentions how Pollard gave away the
identity of US agents in Eastern Europe. This is a
lie. It never happened. Ennes will associate with
anyone who hates Israel. Anyone.
I am still waiting for your "dissection" of the
Cristol book. One has to wonder what excuse you'll
use this time.
Max Brown
www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
From: William Shannon
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 6:43 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [CTRL] USS Liberty Survivor Replies To Critic
-Caveat Lector- http://www.ussliberty.org/lentini2.txt
Liberty survivor Joe Lentini replies to a critic
who email is appended below::
Dear Mr. Brown:
I was on board the USS Liberty on June 8, 1967,
and I can tell you without any doubt, the recount
of the attack in the Ennes book is accurate and
that there is much more to this issue than you are
obviously aware.
First, let me thank you for caring enough to even
look into it. So many Americans know nothing
about the attack because of the politics involved,
and so many others have a dual allegiance to the
US and Israel and, when it comes to any problems
between the two countries, they always lean
towards Israel and so cannot see what happened in
1967 or, for that matter, in more recent history
(e.g., Pollard spy case and the slaughter of
Palestinians).
There is an enormous amount of material which is
considered documented and accurate by both this
country and Israel which clearly brings into
question the accidental attack claim by the State
of Israel. There have been discoveries over the
last 35 years that have revealed attacking Israeli
pilots identifying our ship and being told to
attack anyway, identified US military intelligence
personnel who were privy to various messages and
transcripts clearly indicating the attack was a
coordinated effort, and the sworn testimony of the
survivors who, after all, were there. You may
locate much of this material, and see the
documentation for yourself, by simply doing a
search on the Internet for "USS Liberty" and
following all links. You will see many sites with
accurate information, and some with not so
accurate information, and many with a clear bias
towards protecting Israel's reputation.
As for Jay Cristol's book - have not read it
totally yet, but I can tell you without any doubt
that much of his information and argument for the
attack being an accident is based on half truths
and highly questionable Israeli reports.
Let me give you something to think about, I hope,
and something that will encourage you to look
deeper into this historical moment.
1. The ships logs clearly indicate tracking first
the torpedo boats and then the high-speed aircraft
passing over them, both on a direct line to the
USS Liberty.
2. The planes did not circle the ship trying to
identify the ship, but, instead, approached the
ship bow-on and came in shooting.
3. The planes were flying well below their top
speed and many survivors who were fighting fires
from the napalm and otherwise were topside
performing assigned damage control noted that
these planes were unmarked - this at a time when
Israel was in control of the skies and had no
reason to paint out the Star of David and other
clearly Israeli markings.
4. A high ranking Israeli officer was interviewed
several years later and clear states that Israel
had identified the USS Liberty by June 7, 1967.
This is consistent with the several documented
overflights by Israeli slow-flying aircraft on the
day prior to the attack which were clearly taking
our picture for identification purposes.
5. Our flag was flying until the jets shot it
away. We then hoisted another, and that was also
shot away. Finally, we ran up the huge holiday
flag - one of these shot-up flags is on display at
the museum at the NSA Cryptologic Museum at Ft.
Meade, Maryland. We were slowly sailing into the
wind so the flag was standing out at all times
and, while the pilots might not have seen it in a
bow-on or stern-on attack posture, they certainly
saw it as they crisscrossed the ship, attacking
from both port and starboard. Please note that
these pilots saw well enough to hit the four 50
cal machine gun mounts with at least two rockets
each, put at least one rocket through all topside
hatches/doorways, hit all antenna pods with two or
more rockets, blew up the two small boats on
board, and hit the only gasoline drum on board.
Again, their speed allowed this degree of accuracy
and they obviously had knowledge of our strategic
targets.
6. One of the Israeli torpedo boat captains was
also interviewed several years later and he said
that, after one of the five torpedoes had hit the
ship, he saw the colors of our flag and thought he
had hit a Russian ship. Kind of puts a kink in the
Israeli claim of June 1967 that we had no flag,
doesn't it.
7. Cristol and Israel both give credibility to
the Israeli claim of 1967 that the torpedo boats
misread their radar to the point that they thought
the "unknown" ship off the Sinai Peninsula was
traveling in excess of 20 knots and that local
Israeli field commanders reported shelling of
their position from that area of the Med.
Possible? Sure! But take the time to look a
little deeper please - The torpedo boats
identified us as the El Quisar (sp?), an Egyptian
troop and animal carrier 1)known to be in an
Egyptian port at that time, 2) unable to make even
8 knots, and 3) with absolutely no armament
whatsoever. It gets better! This ship is about
2/3 the size of the USS Liberty, and has none of
the topside antenna equipment, did not have a huge
satellite dish on its stern, and was not painted
USN grey with US information on both sides of the
bow. The ship they said they thought we were
could not go the speed they say they mistakenly
thought we were going and had no means to attack a
nything. Further, the Liberty had only 4 50 cal
machine and was also unable to shell anything from
its position some 13 miles offshore.
8. There are documents available from the LBJ
Library that clearly indicate that LBJ wanted to
seek reelection, did not want to offend this
country's Jewish lobby, and had specific
recommendations from his political advisors to
stay at arm's length from anything having to do
with the USS Liberty.
9. There are a number of plausible reasons for
the attack, and
1) the accurate time-line of that day indicate
that, in fact, taking the Golan Heights was not
known until it was accomplished.
2) You might also find it interesting that Moshe
Dyan, the head of the IDF at that time, said in an
on-camera interview that this expansion had
nothing to do with state security, but was, in his
words, executed to take this property solely to
increase the power and financial wealth of the
political and some of the military leaders of that
day.
3) There is also the very real issue of the added
US support that would come if the US and the world
thought a US ship was sunk by the Arab States -
and the attack came very close to accomplishing
that very thing. We were silenced in the first
minutes of the attack and only got word out
because our technicians were able to rig a
temporary antenna under fire, an antenna that had
never worked before but was made usable by their
efforts and by a partial roc ket hit that somehow
"fixed" whatever the initial problem was. Without
that "word" getting out, they would have sunk us
with all hands and, I suppose, planted some
evidence that the deed was done by Arab State
vessels/planes.
4) Israeli-documented slaughter of Arab prisoners
at El Arish (sp?) that day could have contributed
to the "justification" for the attack. Maybe not,
but the fact that this slaughter occurred is
documented by statements from Israeli soldiers,
so, who knows. There may be other related
possibilities, but the point is that reasons exist
and there is much more than reasonable doubt that
the attack was a pre-planned, coordinated air and
sea attack which took 34 American lives.
By the way, if you wish to have any credibility in
discussions about this subject, I suggest that you
do not refer to sworn testimony of survivors who
were there that day as "hearsay!" As for Jim
Ennes being wounded so everything he said must
have been second hand, simply not so, and to
suggest that does him and other survivors a great
dis-service and indicates that you have not
researched this very well. Remember, the Captain
was also wounded and I can personally promise you,
his story was not "hearsay" and was very accurate.
Oh yes, there are many men present that day who
saw for themselves the Israeli torpedo boats
deliberately machine gun the life rafts and we
have pictures taken just after the attack ended
(about the same time as it became known we got
word out to the fleet about the attack)which
clearly show all life raft positions empty or with
destroyed rafts clearly visible.
One other fact you might find interesting which
relates back to the jets - their speed that day
allowed them to target fire hoses in use by damage
control personnel, and the men using them, during
the attack. Again, multiple eyewitness accounts
are documented concerning this and the use of
"burning jelly" canisters dropped on our decks.
If you truly care about the truth, take the time
to look into this more deeply. Consider the
growing number of senior military and political
people who publicly denounce this attack as
deliberate. Consider the document facts, many of
which are agreed to by both sides. Consider the
contradictions in the "official" story over these
many years, and consider Israel's history, short
though it may be, which is full of examples of
drastic military actions against friend and foe
alike, military and civilian, in the name of
Israel's security.
Finally, although it has nothing to do directly
with the attack on the USS Liberty, I mention the
Pollard case. Strange that you seem to be
defending him when it is documented fact that
Israel paid him to spy against his country. Let
me put it another way, Israel, our "friend," paid
him to spy against their claimed ally, the US. Is
it really so hard to believe that this same "ally"
found it to be in their best interests to attempt
to sink a US intelligence ship with all hands back
in 1967?
Cristol's book, and several others by Israeli
writers or friends of Israel, reaches the wrong
conclusions. It does not take much more that a
quick look at the documented facts of this case to
realize that the Israeli claim of an "accident"
fails to hold up. I hope you will take the time
to dig deeper and, keeping an open mind about this
subject, consider all possibilities.
Again, thank you for your interest in this
historical event.
Joseph C. Lentini
CTOC USN-ret
USS Liberty Survivor
======================================================
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Maxwell Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 22:02:05 -0700
Subject: Another opinion
I have just completed reading the book by A. Jay
Cristol, The Liberty Incident and I have to
frankly say he beyond any doubt shows the attack
on the Liberty to be mistaken identity. He also
shows how Jim Ennes's book was based on hearsay.
Mr. Ennes has made some wild claims and outright
lies. One lis is how the Israeli motor torpedo
boats did not have any identification. However
William McGonagle testified he ordered the gunners
not to fire on the boat as hesaw the Israeli flag.
Also he says the attack jets were flying so fast
it would have been impossible to detect any
markings on it, such as the Star of David. He also
shows how to see the American flag, you have to
have been within a certain distance and not flying
past a certain speed. yet you continue to claim
that they "Must" have seen the flag.
Also Ennes claims that then US Senator William
Fullbright said that Lyndon Johnson ordered him to
cover up the attack. One problem. Fullbright
denies this and Ennes hears it 3rd party.
Ennes was injured at the beginning of the attack,
thus relies on full hearsay.
Your theories on why the ship was attacked are
nonexistent. The theory that Israel didn't want
the US to know about their imminent invasion of
Syria is dead and confirmed by John Borne, as
proof is shown that Israel told the US they were
invading Syria hours before the Liberty was
attacked. The NEW theory, and their appears to be
a new one every week is the alleged Israeli
massacre of Egyptian POW's. Considering that Egypt
NEVER accused Israeli of this and has had the
Sinai for 20 years and yet has found no mass
graves, makes that theory useless. Also it was
said that the Liberty intercepted messages of
Israeli killing those POW's. One problem, the
claim of a POW massacre was that it took place on
June 7, one day BEFORE the Liberty reached Alpha
Point. Do you have any other theories to
propagate?
Lastly, Mr. Ennes is now in full anti-Jewish
conspiracy mode. He said he has friends in
Teheran, Iran. What a shock. Iran, a nation that
hates Jews, a nations that blew up the Israeli
embassy in Argentina and has executed Jews on
alleged spying charges, is pro-Liberty. Also have
we forgotten on how Iran financed the attack of
the US Marines in Lebanon in 1983? Also the
interviewer mentions how Pollard gave away the
identity of US agents in Eastern Europe. This is a
lie. It never happened. Ennes will associate with
anyone who hates Israel. Anyone.
I am still waiting for your "dissection" of the
Cristol book. One has to wonder what excuse you'll
use this time.
Max Brown
www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. ======================================================================== Archives Available at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ <A HREF="">ctrl</A> ======================================================================== To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Om
www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. ======================================================================== Archives Available at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ <A HREF="">ctrl</A> ======================================================================== To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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