-Caveat Lector- For sanity's sake, why would you turn to Shannon to tell you about Jews when you can call the nearest synagogue or go on line and ask your questions at many sites. Life is complicated. Simplistic views come from simplistic people. What all Jews have in common is a long history and that's about it. Like a tree, there are many branches and the shoots of branches veer off and then cross each other. A family who for many generations follows the secular only line may have children who jump off and go to the Orthodox branch or to the Conservative branch for example. Families who are Orthodox for many generations may find themselves with a child who goes off and lands on another branch. Many Jews intermarry, thinking the religious part is superfluous, but then their children may search for their roots and start studying the religious aspect. People who are Conservative may take the Jewish religion more seriously than someone who is born Orthodox but takes it for granted. The complexity of the Jewish community can be overwhelming from the outside. When seen from the inside, from someone who is Jewish, each one thinks they know what Judaism is about, and of course it always corrolates with what that person believes. How many branches of Orthodox Judaism do you think there are? The best way to understand Jews is to start by checking out how many different political parties there are in Israel. http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Politics/partytoc.html.
Some are tiny. Some are larger. Many get together to form coalitions. The number of different parties in such a small country shows the fiercely independent character of Jews. Some are secular. Some are religious. Some are a combination. It makes our Democrats vs Republicans system here in the US seem like mind-controlled zombies. This fiercely independent nature of Jews is why the one-worlders want to do away with the Jews. It's why the European Union under Solana fights Israel. I looked to the Jews against Zionism website and found they were just a small sect. Someone has expanded their image via the internet. From what I know, they may not know how their image has been expanded by someone on the inside of their movement in that they are not people who spend much time on the internet. -----Original Message----- From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of E. Murray Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 2:22 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] Zionists DO NOT Represent Jews -Caveat Lector- Can you please clarify the differences between the four sects of Judaism -- I am not sure my info is correct but I understand that the four sects are: 1) Hasidic, 2) Fundamentalists (aka "Zionists") 3) Regular or Normal Jews (what are they known as to you?) and 4) Progressive Jews. I would like clarification about the differences in a general way. Thanks much for your input. E. Murry On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 12:06:40 -0800 Party of Citizens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > -Caveat Lector- > > Jews, which is to say EDOMITE Jews, ie those who, in their arrogance > call themselves "The" Jews, do not represent Zionists. > > The whole world is Jewish except for John KKKnight. Otherwise there > are only different denominations of Jews. ("Judaism is one. > Denominations are > many." - Jewish Almanac, 1980, p.504). > > Zandu Goldbar > Learned Elder of Zion > > ********* <http://www.geocities.com/CITIZENS_ASSEMBLY> > ********** > $$$ "Capital punishment is not just penalty for poverty" > $$$ > > On Tue, 6 Jan 2004, William Shannon wrote: > > > -Caveat Lector- > > > > http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/ > > > > > > > > ZIONISTS > > > > DO NOT REPRESENT JEWS > > > > > > JEWS AGAINST ZIONISM IN THE NEWS > > > > > > Washington Post, 5 October 2003 > > > > > > Read Open Letter to > > President George W. Bush > > > > (printable PDF Version of Letter to Pres. Bush) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From the inception of the Zionist State and particularly in > recent times, the > > impression has been created in the World that there is some > connection > > between the State, which falsely calls itself Israel, and the > Jewish people as a > > whole. Therefore, we who continue to uphold the never-changing > tradition of the > > Jewish people find it proper to again clarify the following > points: > > > > A Jew is one who remains faithful to the laws of the Jewish > religion, that > > is, the Holy Torah and its commandments. > > > > The Jewish people became a people before they had their own land, > and > > continued to exist as a people also after they went Into exile, > because our very > > peoplehood is based exclusively on the Torah. > > > > The Holy Land was given to the Jewish people on the condition that > they > > observe the Torah and its commandments. When they failed to do > this, their > > sovereignty over the land was taken from them, and they went into > exile. From that > > time, we are prohibited by the Torah with a very grave prohibition > to establish a > > Jewish independent sovereignty in the Holy Land or anywhere > throughout the > > world. Rather, we are obligated to be loyal to the nations under > whose > > protection we dwell. > > > > This situation has existed for close to 2000 years when the Jewish > people > > were dispersed throughout all corners of the world. During this > time, the Jews > > always remained faithful to the country in which they lived. > > > > The Jewish people are grateful to all those merciful nations which > have > > allowed them to observe Torah and the commandments undisturbed. > > > > >From ancient times, the relations between the Jewish and Islamic > peoples have > > always been those of peace and brotherhood, and friendship always > reigned > > between them. The proof of this is the fact that for centuries, in > all the Arab > > lands, hundreds of thousands of Jews lived in honor and amidst > mutual esteem. > > > > Jews throughout all generations yearned to grace the sacred soil > of the Holy > > Land and to live there. However, their sole purpose was to fulfill > the > > commandments dependent upon the land and to absorb Its holiness. > Never, G-d forbid, > > did they have any nationalist or sovereign intent whatsoever > which, as > > mentioned above, is forbidden to us. Indeed, also here in the Holy > Land, our fathers > > lived in neighborly harmony with the Palestinian residents of the > land, helping > > one another, to mutual benefit. > > > > Until about two hundred years ago, the vast majority of Jews > observed the > > Torah and the commandments in entirety. Jewry's leaders were Torah > scholars, who > > directed the people according to the Torah. They were loyal > citizens in the > > host nations where they dwelled and to the local laws. They prayed > for the > > welfare of their respective governments. To our sorrow, at that > time a small > > number of Jews slowly left their observance of Torah and > commandments. Together > > with this, they began to deride the spiritual leadership of their > people. This > > assimilation was the basis upon which, one hundred years ago, the > ideology of > > Zionism was born. Its founders were assimilated Jews who had > abandoned the > > Torah. > > > > Immediately at the founding of the Zionist movement, masses of > Jews under the > > leadership of their Rabbis, launched a heavy battle against > Zionism. Their > > attack was directed not only at the non-religious Zionist idea, > but rather, > > primarily at its opposition to the Torah-ordained path that Jewry > must follow > > while in exile. As such, the Zionists incited the nations of the > world, demanding > > political sovereignty over the Holy Land while remaining oblivious > to the > > resentment this would arouse In the Palestinian Arabs, the land's > veteran > > inhabitants. As stated, the leaders of Orthodox Jewry vehemently > opposed the movement > > with all force. > > > > The Zionists refused to heed the voice of the Rabbis and Torah > authority. > > They persisted in their ways until they succeeded in influencing > the British > > government to issue the Balfour Declaration concerning the > "establishment of a > > national home for the Jews in the land of Israel." To our great > sorrow, from that > > point on began the deterioration of the good relations between the > Jews and > > the Arab inhabitants of the land. This occurred because the Arab > people > > understood that the Zionists wished to seize rulership from them. > In addition, the > > Arab people had suspicions as if the Jewish people wished to seize > control of > > the Temple Mount and other similar sites. Matters worsened as a > result. > > > > The Jewish leadership of that time saw it as proper to clarify > before the > > Arab leaders that the Torah-true Jews had no desire whatsoever for > sovereignty, > > and that our desire was to continue to live in peace with the > Arabs, as we had > > always done. The leader of the G-d-fearing Jewish community at > that time, > > Rabbi Yoseph Chaim Zonnenfeld. of blessed memory, organized a > delegation in July > > of 24' which visited King Hussein and his sons Faisal the King of > Iraq and the > > Amir Abdullah In order to lucidly present to them the position of > the > > G-d-fearing Jewish community. The Jewish delegation clarified > unequivocally that > > Torah Jewry is totally opposed to the Zionist sovereignty over the > Holy Land. It > > Is worth noting that the delegation was received with great honor. > They were > > even assured that all Arab lands were completely open to Jews, > however, on the > > condition that the Jews do not demand political rights. This > condition also > > applied to the Holy Land. One of the members of the Jewish > delegation, Professor > > Yisroel Yaakov De Haan, paid with his life for his participation. > > > > Torah Jewry protests at every opportunity against the Zionist rule > over the > > Holy Land, and the Zionist rebellion against the neighboring > nations. Torah > > Jewry has condemned the Zionist oppression of the Palestinians, the > land's > > veteran inhabitants who have been driven from their homes and > properties. The > > Zionists' barbaric and violent deeds are absolutely antithetical > to the essence of > > the Jewish people. > > > > Torah Jewry has never ever recognized the Zionist state. Since the > Zionists > > succeeding in establishing their state, Torah Jewry has > continuously announced > > to the world that the Zionists do not represent the Jewish people, > and that > > the name "Israel" that they use is a forgery. For as has been > stated above, it > > is forbidden to us from the Torah to rebel against the nations, > and all > > sovereignty by us is prohibited. Rather, we await the days when > all the world will > > recognize the sovereignty of the Creator, and the words of the > prophet Isaiah > > will yet be fulfilled: "And they will beat their swords into > plowshares and > > their spears into pruning hooks. No nation will lift its sword > against any other, > > nor will they learn warfare anymore." > > > > Anti-Zionist Orthodox Jews have refrained to this day from taking > any funds > > from the Zionist regime, whether for their educational > institutions, synagogues > > or other benefits. Obviously, they do not participate in the > Zionist > > elections, whether for the "Knesset" or for the municipality. We > do not serve in their > > army, and we even avoid speaking in the Hebrew language that the > Zionists > > Invented. (incidentally, this is not the holy and true Hebrew > language in which > > the Bible is written.) All this is done because Torah Jewry does > not recognize > > the Zionist regime, which Is against the Torah and against > humanity. > > > > Lately, the question has once again arisen concerning the Temple > Mount and > > sovereignty over it. Thus, we wish to state unequivocally: a) In > our time, it > > is a severe Torah prohibition for any Jew to set foot on any part > of the Temple > > Mount area. b) The Jewish people have no claim whatsoever to > sovereignty over > > this holy site, which is under Islamic authority, nor over any > other holy > > site. Rabbi Zonenfeld was once asked, "is it true, that the Rabbi > prefers an > > non-Jewish government over all of the Holy Land"? Rabbi Zonenfeld > replied, "if > > King Hussein would rule over Palestine, the holiness of the Holy > Land would not > > be diminished to even to an Iota degree". We yearningly await > G-d's great day, > > when He will return His Divine Presence to Zion, restoring the > holy city to > > its former holiness and glory as in days of old, to be a light to > the peoples > > and the nations. > > > > The Zionists have no right of any sovereignty over even one inch > of the Holy > > Land. They do not represent the Jewish people in any way > whatsoever. They have > > no right to speak in the name of the Jewish people. Therefore, > their words, > > declarations and actions are not in any way representative of the > Jewish > > people. This is because the Zionists' seizing of power over the > Holy Land is > > antithetical to Jewish law, and also because the Zionists do not > behave like Jews at > > all rather, they desecrate the sanctity of the land. > > > > We once again clarify that it is our desire to live in peace with > our Arab > > and Palestinian neighbors, as we did before the Zionist > revolution, and as Jews > > all over the world till today live, accepting the yoke of > rulership of their > > host nation, with complete loyalty. Our sole desire is to serve > our G-d and to > > fulfill His commandments with a perfect heart and to delight in > the radiance > > of the sanctity of the Land. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > www.ctrl.org > > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER > > ========== > > CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing > propagandic > > screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! > These are > > sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many > half-truths, mis- > > directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different > groups with > > major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and > thought. > > That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of > posts, and > > always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives > no > > credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. > > > > Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. > > > ======================================================================== > > Archives Available at: > > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ > > <A > HREF="http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl</A> > > > ======================================================================== > > To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > > SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send > email: > > SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Om > > > > www.ctrl.org > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER > ========== > CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing > propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not > soap-boxing—please! These are > sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, > mis- > directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different > groups with > major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and > thought. > That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, > and > always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no > credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. > > Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. > ======================================================================== > Archives Available at: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ > <A HREF="http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl</A> > ======================================================================== > To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Om > > www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. ======================================================================== Archives Available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ <A HREF="http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl</A> ======================================================================== To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. ======================================================================== Archives Available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ <A HREF="http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl</A> ======================================================================== To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
