-Caveat Lector-
Interview with JACQUES VALLEE
<cont'd>
The Controllers
60GCAT: You've said that UFOs represent a form of alien
intelligence that is actively manipulating human society. How
and toward what end?
Vallee: A new computer analysis of historical trends, compiled in
the 1970s, led me to plot a striking graph of "waves" of UFO
activity that was anything but periodic. Fred Beckman and Dr.
Price Williams of UCLA pointed out that it resembled a schedule
of reinforcement typical of a learning or training process: the
phenomenon was more akin to a control system than to an
exploratory task force of alien travelers. There are many control
systems around us, and some are a part of nature: ecology,
climate, etc. Some are man-made: the process of education, the
thermostat in your home. If the UFO phenomenon represents a
control system, can we test it to determine if it is natural or
artificial, open or closed? This is one of the interesting
questions about the phenomenon that has never been answered.
Chariots of the Frauds
60GCAT: Speaking of control systems, some of your other avenues
of UFO research have led you to suggest that from time to time
human agencies --governments, cults, and other groups interested
in manipulating people's beliefs-- have engineered UFO deceptions
and hoaxes. Now we're really getting conspiratorial ...
Vallee: I think the place where ufology -the way it has developed
today-- eets with my interest in communications, and my interest
in networks is in deception and manipulation. I think that is an
area of which people should be aware. Because I think a lot of
the things that are being discussed today, among people who
believe in UFOs, are either mythical or a part of manipulation of
some sort, which could include the stories of little aliens and
the hybrids and abductions and so forth. A lot of that may be
either material that cults have injected into the culture because
it suits their own fantasy about the end of the world or the
millennium and all that.
Or, in a more sinister sense, in some of the cases I've
investigated, the deception hides a mind-control experiment.
Anybody who is aware of technology today should know that we have
much more than a stealth fighter flying around. We have
capabilities, theoretical or practical, to make all types of
things. There is a massive development of nonlethal platforms
going on that those platforms have to be tested somewhere, they
have to be disguised as something else from time to time. There
has been massive development of RPVs --remotely piloted
vehicles-- some of which are disk-shaped. There is massive
development of low observable technologies that are used for
reconnaissance and can be used for all sorts of other things. And
in many cases, the UFO stories are not simply fantasies in the
minds of a few witnesses, but may have been planted as part of a
cover for some very terrestrial technologies that WE are
developing.
'Messengers of Deception?'
60GCAT: The UMMO cult, which you discuss at length in your books,
"Revelations" and "Messengers of Deception," has an impressive
history of elaborate deception. Tell us about it.
Vallee: I think that the UMMO myth was started by a small group
of people, essentially cultists. What was intriguing about UMMO
was all its pseudo-scientific revelations [supposedly handed down
to earthling scientists like Vallee from UMMO-ites, beings who
hail from a planet 14.6 light years away from our sun]. But these
supposed revelations were not within the state of the art. They
didn't come up with proof of Fermat's theorem or something like
that, it was just perfectly good science fiction.
60GCAT: What about the French theory that UMMO was a
psychological experiment?
Vallee: Yeah, they thought that the cult had been used or was
manipulated by the KGB. Because for one thing, some of their
ideas --some of the data that was supposedly channeled from the
UMMO organization in the sky was very advanced cosmology. Very
advanced cosmology about twin universes involving some data that
was not stupid -- it came straight out of the notes of Andre
Sakarav, including some of the unpublished notes of Sakarav, some
things that Sakarav was known to have worked on, but had not
published. And so some people --and I don't know who's right--
felt that somebody had to have access to those notes, to inspire
those messages, perhaps the KGB. It wasn't just ordinary science
fiction; it was somebody who knew what some of the more advanced
cosmologists were thinking.
60GCAT: Why would the KGB or any intelligence agency perpetrate
such an arcane hoax?
Vallee: Well, let me tell you a little story. About fifteen years
ago there was a group that suddenly appeared in San Francisco.
They had a big party downtown. And they invited everybody who was
anybody in parapsychology. And they made a little speech saying,
"We have all this money from somebody who wants to do good and
help research, we know that there isn't much money in
parapsychology; we will entertain proposals for research, give us
your best ideas; we will send it to a panel who will review it
and we will fund the best research." After the party, a lot of
people rushed home to their computers and typed in all their best
ideas, sent it on -- but the organization never existed, was
never heard from again. Somebody was fishing.
So having a cover as a group sometimes, a completely weird
group, can be a convenient way of getting technical intelligence.
It's a good way of doing technological assessment. So some of
those weird groups could be used for that. Now, that doesn't
explain why they would do it for ten years. In the case of UMMO,
why would you go on? I think that UMMO became sort of a goal in
itself. It became self-propagating. because so many people got
drawn to it, psychologically. They started writing things about
each other and it became a self-sustaining myth. They're still
sending me stuff. There is an index, catalogs; for some people
it's become their entire life. Increasingly, we're seeing those
kinds of cults appearing in net space, cyberspace.
60GCAT: Is there something about online communications that helps
foster myths and deceptions?
Vallee: Because we live in a world where with communications
media based on digital networks, a small group of people can have
a tremendous impact on the belief of the masses. And we also live
in a world where the belief of the masses IS a strategic weapon.
We have H-bombs but we can't use them. We have neutron bombs, but
we can't use them. But if we found a way of influencing the
beliefs of masses of people, that would have great strategic
impact. The big problems in the world are the problems of
fundamentalism and religion -- whether it's Islamic or in other
forms of religion. Those are the great destabilizing forces in
the world today. Well, belief in Extraterrestrials coming here to
save us can be induced in large masses of people with the
technical means that exist today.
The potential for contagion of absurd beliefs is a real one.
In the hands of people who might deliberately use the Internet to
create an epidemic of irrationalism we might see the emergence
of a whole new class of very dangerous, powerful cults with all
the trappings of high technology.
And I think somebody has to pay attention to that angle. So
I was led to that by finding -- I was investigating some cases
that were physically real, but were hoaxes -- but not hoaxes on
the part of the witnesses. And the story about the object had in
fact been planted.
The Bentwaters case [in which American servicemen at an Air
Force base in England observed a disk-shaped craft land in the
forest] is a classic. At the landing site, they had a mix of
ordinary guards, officers, sentries and so on -- they all had
orders to go to the site under a scenario. And that's NOT what
would of happened if the encounter were real -- if a strange
object landed on the base you wouldn't be sending out a hundred
people without weapons. The thing has all the earmarks of being
staged for the benefit of the witnesses, so that they could be
studied and the reactions of the different psychological types
and of different ranks could be studied. And when you think about
it, it's not that weird. If you were in charge of a project like
that, you'd have to test it in conditions where nobody is danger
and you can get the data you need. In cases like this one --not
many but a few of them-- that I investigated, I had to conclude
that these were tests of virtual reality projectors.
Psy-Ops from 'Beyond'
60GCAT: So there might be military applications for this
technology of deception?
Vallee: Our gods have always come from the sky. And how would a
god come from the sky today? He would come down in some kind of
space ship. He couldn't just appear out of the clouds, I mean,
that won't work. Although in World War I the Germans were using
psychological warfare by projecting photographs, slides, along
French lines. And I'm sure the French were doing the same thing
to the Germans. And there are very sophisticated devices now
being used in psychological warfare to create holograms, to
create visions to influence people. It might not work with you
and me today if we go out today and see something in the skies,
it might not destabilize us. But if we were under a lot of
stress--if you've been fighting for a month on some little
island, and all of the sudden something like that happens--
I remember seeing a letter to the U.S. Air Force from a man
who was finally reporting something he had seen during World War
II in the Pacific. He said he was on top of a little island
lookout point. They were expecting a Japanese attack. They had
been fighting intensely on and off for several weeks. They were
fairly isolated. They saw an object in the sky that was
absolutely physical, that circled the island, was a disk, no
means of propulsion, no noise. It circled the island and went
off. And he said he had never reported it, not even to his wife.
The reason he didn't report it at the time was that his men were
under such stress that he wouldn't want them to think that their
commander might be flipping. So the same kind of psychological
means that won't work with ordinary people and ordinary things
might work in exceptional cases.
60GCAT: And therefore cultists and UFO true believers --who are
under a kind of ideological stress-- might be seen as ideal
targets for such manipulation.
Vallee: In some cases the UFO community may be simply used in a
sociological experiment because they are a convenient group of
people to see how they would react to different rumors. [Suppose
the government loses a nuclear weapon over a foreign country.]
You still have to go and recover that thing. And you can't tell
people what you're doing, so you have to be able to very quickly
plant a story. You might plant a story that this was a flying
saucer from Venus. That would be so ridiculous that scientists
wouldn't go check. You might have a few journalists there, but
you can tell them whatever you want, and you can give them
photographs of whatever. And so all you need is to distract
everybody for two or three days, time to bring the equipment, get
everything out, recover whatever was scattered and go away. I
think there are cases where exactly that has happened. And those
are sort of the great UFO stories that people still tell around
campfire.
But I think there was no UFO there. I think the UFO story
was invented-- I was saying earlier it's healthy to be skeptical.
I respect people who have a skeptical argument there. Jim Oberg,
who is a specialist in the Russian space program, pointed out to
me that some of the sightings that I published from the Soviet
Union --a strange yellowish crescent seen going through the sky
by many people in the Soviet Union-- that those were rocket tests
that were illegal under the Salt agreement; and obviously, they
couldn't hide it in the sky ... so the government planted the
story that there was a flying saucer, and that got into the
newspapers.
Again, the UFO research community is a useful laboratory in
which to observe the effects of propaganda and disinformation,
since it is driven in large part by an intent to expose "the
coverup." This creates an opportunity for people to masquerade as
good guys and "reveal" all sorts of unverifiable rumors. They
meet with a receptive audience because the context is one of
"independent inquiry of original, bold, nonconformist ideas. Does
that mean we should necessarily believe the man who claims he was
in NATO intelligence and saw a classified document about the four
humanoid races that live on the moon? I don't think so.
Copyright (c) 1995 by Jonathan Vankin and John Whalen
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