-Caveat Lector-

 a message dated 99-12-14 13:52:52 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

>Actually, there is a sort of underground tradition, mostly in the later New
>Testament apocrypha, that Jesus was in fact an ugly man ...

That tradition seems to have originated with one of the seldom-quoted Old
Testament "prophecies" regarding the coming of the Messiah, therein called,
I
believe, the "man of sorrows."  When correctly translated from the original
Hebrew, it describes him as a man totally lacking in physical attractveness,
even ugly, AND as socially rejected for his appearance, like a thorn among
roses or whatever.  (It's been treated as "just a metaphor" by Christians
who
know of it, but the description in context is a literal one, and, apart from
the desire to make the Savior one of the "beautiful people," there's no
other
reason to doubt it being a simple statement of fact.  To sidestep the
implications of that conclusion, in fact, some Biblicists even resort to a
Talmudic sleight of hand, claiming that "prophecy" refers not to the One Yet
to Come but to MOSES long ago.
My OWN understanding, for what it's worth, is that it refers to NEITHER and
is not a "prophecy" at all but describes an historic person, a "failed"
Messiah ca. 400 BC.)
=====================================================================


This is the modern Jewish view
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/j4j-2000/index.html




ISAIAH 53
At JEWS FOR JUDAISM, we frequently encounter questions from Jews who are
involved in or considering Christianity. Among the questions, one chapter of
our Jewish Scriptures keeps coming up: Isaiah 53. Wasn't the Prophet, in
fact, referring to Jesus in this chapter? And didn't all Jews before the
Middle Ages recognize this chapter as "messianic"? We hope to assist you in
interpreting a chapter which has become a cornerstone of Christian
evangelism to Jews.

Our Jewish sages teach that "whoever saves a single Jewish soul is
considered as if he had saved an entire world." How precious is the Jewish
soul! Though the Bible study which follows is a lengthy one, we have
prepared it in the belief that - as a Jewish soul - you are worthy of any
method which may be required. We hope that you too will value your soul
highly enough to prayerfully ponder that which follows. G-D's truth is not
always easy to discern, but we are possessors of a Divine promise; "you will
find Him if you search after Him with all your heart and all your soul"
(Deut. 4:29). As faithful Jews have attested for over 3500 years, it's worth
the effort. And now - on with the search!

A. PRELIMINARY ISSUES
Before engaging in an examination of Isaiah 53 itself, some preliminary
issues must be considered. First is the issue of circular reasoning. Even if
we interpret the chapter as the Christians do (forgetting for a minute the
mistranslations and distortions of context which will be noted below), the
most that could be said is this: Isaiah 53 is about someone who dies for the
sins of others. People may have seen Jesus die, but did anyone see him die
as an atonement for the sins of others? Of course not; this is simply the
meaning which the New Testament gives to his death. Only if you already
accept the New Testament teaching that his death had a non-visible,
spiritual significance can you than go back to Isaiah and say, "see - the
Prophet predicted what I already believe." Isaiah 53, then, is in reality no
"proof" at all, but rather a contrived confirmation for someone who has
already chosen Christianity.

Second (and consistent with all Jewish teaching at the time), Jesus' own
disciples didn't view Isaiah 53 as a messianic prophecy. For example, after
Peter identifies Jesus as the Messiah (Matt. 16:16), he is informed that
Jesus will be killed (Matt. 16:21). His response: "G-D forbid it, lord! This
shall never happen to you" (Matt. 16:22). See, also, Mk. 9:31-32; Mk.
16:10-11; Jn. 20:9. Even Jesus didn't see Isaiah 53 as crucial to his
messianic claims - why else did he call the Jews children of the devil for
not believing in him before the alleged resurrection (Jn. 8:39-47)? And why
did he later request that G-D "remove this cup from me" (Mk. 14:36) - didn't
he know that a "removal of the cup" would violate the gentile understanding
of Isaiah 53?

And third, even if we accept the gentile Christian interpretation of Isaiah
53, where is it indicated (either in Isaiah 53 or anywhere else in our
Jewish Scriptures) that you must believe in this "Messiah" to get the
benefits?

B. CONTEXT
Since any portion of Scripture is only understood properly when viewed in
the context of G-D's revelation as a whole, some additional study will be
helpful before you "tackle" Isaiah 53.

Look at the setting in which Isaiah 53 occurs. Earlier on in Isaiah, G-D had
predicted exile and calamity for the Jewish people. Chapter 53, however,
occurs in the midst of Isaiah's "Messages of Consolation", which tell of the
restoration of Israel to a position of prominence and a vindication of their
status as G-D's chosen people. In chapter 52, for example, Israel is
described as "oppressed without cause" (v.4) and "taken away" (v.5), yet G-D
promises a brighter future ahead, one in which Israel will again prosper and
be redeemed in the sight of all the nations (v.1-3, 8-12).

Chapter 54 further elaborates upon the redemption which awaits the nation of
Israel. Following immediately after chapter 53's promise of a reward for
G-D's servant in return for all of its suffering (53:10-12), chapter 54
describes an unequivocally joyous fate for the Jewish people. Speaking
clearly of the Jewish people and their exalted status (even according to all
Christian commentaries), chapter 54 ends as follows: "`This is the heritage
of the servants of the L-rd and their vindication is from Me,' declares the
L-rd."

C. ISAIAH 53
In the original Hebrew texts, there are no chapter divisions, and Jew and
Christian alike agree that chapter 53 is actually a continuation of the
prophecy which begins at 52:13. Accordingly, our analysis must begin at that
verse.

52:13 "Behold, My servant will prosper." Israel in the singular is called
G-D's servant throughout Isaiah, both explicitly (Isa. 41:8-9; 44:1-2; 45:4;
48:20; 49:3) and implicitly (Isa. 42:19-20; 43:10) - the Messiah is not.
Other references to Israel as G-D's servant include Jer. 30:10 (note that in
Jer. 30:17, the servant Israel is regarded by the nations as an outcast,
forsaken by G-D, as in Isa. 53:4); Jer. 46:27-28; Ps. 136:22; Lk. 1:54.
ALSO: Given the Christian view that Jesus is G-D, is G-D His own servant?

52:15 - 53:1 "So shall he (the servant) startle many nations, the kings will
stand speechless; For that which had not been told them they shall see and
that which they had not heard shall they ponder. Who would believe what we
have heard?" Quite clearly, the nations and their kings will be amazed at
what happens to the "servant of the L-rd," and they will say "who would
believe what we have heard?". 52:15 tells us explicitly that it is the
nations of the world, the gentiles, who are doing the talking in Isaiah 53.
See, also, Micah 7:12-17, which speaks of the nations' astonishment when the
Jewish people again blossom in the Messianic age.

53:1 "And to whom has the arm of the L-rd been revealed?" In Isaiah, and
throughout our Scriptures, G-D's "arm" refers to the physical redemption of
the Jewish people from the oppression of other nations (see, e.g., Isa.
52:8-12; Isa. 63:12; Deut. 4:34; Deut. 7:19; Ps. 44:3).

53:3 "Despised and rejected of men." While this is clearly applicable to
Israel (see Isa. 60:15; Ps. 44:13-14), it cannot be reconciled with the New
Testament account of Jesus, a man who was supposedly "praised by all" (Lk.
4:14-15) and followed by multitudes (Matt. 4:25), who would later acclaim
him as a prophet upon his triumphal entry into Jerusalem (Matt. 21:9-11).
Even as he was taken to be crucified, a multitude bemoaned his fate (Lk.
23:27). Jesus had to be taken by stealth, as the rulers feared "a riot of
the people" (Mk. 14:1-2).

53:3 "A man of pains and acquainted with disease." Israel's adversities are
frequently likened to sickness - see, e.g., Isa. 1:5-6; Jer. 10:19; Jer
30:12.

53:4 "Surely our diseases he carried and our pains he bore." In Matt. 8:17,
this is correctly translated, and said to be literally (not spiritually)
fulfilled in Jesus' healing of the sick, a reading inconsistent with the
Christian mistranslation of 53:4 itself.

53:4 "Yet we ourselves esteemed him stricken, smitten of G- D and
afflicted." See Jer. 30:17 - of G-D's servant Israel (30:10), it is said by
the nations, "It is Zion; no one cares for her."

53:5 "But he was wounded from (NOTE: not for) our transgressions, he was
crushed from (AGAIN: not for) our iniquities." Whereas the nations had
thought the Servant (Israel) was undergoing Divine retribution for its sins
(53:4), they now realize that the Servant's sufferings stemmed from their
actions and sinfulness. This theme is further developed throughout our
Jewish Scriptures - see, e.g., Jer. 50:7; Jer. 10:25. ALSO: Note that the
Messiah "shall not fail nor be crushed till he has set the right in the
earth" (Isa. 42:4).

53:7 "He was oppressed and he was afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth.
Like a lamb that is led to slaughter, and like a sheep that is silent before
its shearers, so he did not open his mouth." Note that in the prior chapter
(Isa. 52), Israel is said to have been oppressed and taken away without
cause (52:4-5). A similar theme is developed in Psalm 44, wherein King David
speaks of Israel's faithfulness even in the face of gentile oppression
(44:17- 18) and describes Israel as "sheep to be slaughtered" in the midst
of the unfaithful gentile nations (44:22,11).

Regarding the claim that Jesus "did not open his mouth" when faced with
oppression and affliction, see Matt. 27:46, Jn. 18:23, 36-37.

53:8 "From dominion and judgement he was taken away." Note the correct
translation of the Hebrew. The Christians are forced to mistranslate, since
- by Jesus' own testimony - he never had any rights to rulership or
judgement, at least not on the "first coming." See, e.g., Jn. 3:17; Jn.
8:15; Jn. 12:47; Jn. 18:36.

53:8 "He was cut off out of the land of the living."

53:9 "His grave was assigned with wicked men." See Ez. 37:11-14, wherein
Israelis described as "cut off" and G-D promises to open its "graves" and
bring Israel back into its own land. Other examples of figurative deaths
include Ex. 10:17; 2 Sam. 9:8; 2 Sam. 16:9.

53:8 "From my peoples' sins, there was injury to them." Here the Prophet
makes absolutely clear, to anyone familiar with Biblical Hebrew, that the
oppressed Servant is a collective Servant, not a single individual. The
Hebrew word "lamoh", when used in our Scriptures, always means "to them"
never "to him" and may be found, for example, in Psalm 99:7 - "They kept his
testimonies, and the statute that He gave to them."

53:9 "And with the rich in his deaths." Perhaps King James should have
changed the original Hebrew, which again makes clear that we are dealing
with a collective Servant, i.e., Israel, which will "come to life" when the
exile ends (Ez. 37:14).

53:9 "He had done no violence." See Matt. 21:12; Mk. 11:15-16; Lk. 19:45;
Lk. 19:27; Matt. 10:34 and Lk. 12:51; then judge for yourself whether this
passage is truly consistent with the New Testament account of Jesus.

53:10 "He shall see his seed." The Hebrew word for "seed", used in this
verse, always refers to physical descendants in our Jewish Scriptures. See,
e.g., Gen. 12:7; Gen. 15:13; Gen. 46:6; Ex. 28:43. A different word,
generally translated as "sons", is used to refer to spiritual descendants
(see Deut. 14:1, e.g.).

53:10 "He will prolong his days." Not only did Jesus die young, but how
could the days be prolonged of someone who is alleged to be G-D?

53:11 "With his knowledge the righteous one, my Servant, will cause many to
be just." Note again the correct translation: the Servant will cause many to
be just, he will not "justify the many." The Jewish mission is to serve as a
"light to the nations" which will ultimately lead the world to a knowledge
of the one true G-D, this both by example (Deut. 4:5-8; Zech. 8:23) and by
instructing the nations in G-D's Law (Isa. 2:3-4; Micah 4:2-3).

53:12 "Therefore, I will divide a portion to him with the great, and he
shall divide the spoil with the mighty." If Jesus is G-D, does the idea of
reward have any meaning? Is it not rather the Jewish people - who
righteously bore the sins of the world and yet remained faithful to G-D (Ps.
44) - who will be rewarded, and this in the manner described more fully in
Isaiah chapters 52 and 54?







-----Original Message-----
From: Das GOAT [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: 15 December 1999 12:26
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Politically Correct Jesus


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