Kris Millegan
Thu, 9 Mar 2000 10:58:20 -0800
-Caveat Lector- <A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"> </A> -Cui Bono?- Twenty Questions . . . David Guyatt RA Kris Millegan©2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ctr.org 3/8/2000 I met David Guyatt through the Internet. An essay of mine about Skull and Bones was/is posted at www.parascope.com and David ran across it and an ensuing friendship was formed. Through the years David has shared his frustrations of researching, uncovering, understanding and then articulating complex stories for years only to have the rug pulled out from various projects by the "powers-that-be." David has much personal experience, has published many articles and has followed leads where others fear to tread. I have always valued David’s experiences and insights and am happy to present this email interview with one the world’s top "conspiracy" researchers into the netherworld of "reality." Om K ----- Twenty Questions . . . 1. What is your background? I am married, have three grown up kids and one grandson. I live on the East coast of England with a fine view out over the countryside. Professionally speaking I spent almost 28 years in stockbroking and international banking in the City of London. I worked for a number of what I now know to be "interesting" firms - but at the time didn't really know the game was on. One of these firms was Euromobiliare, an Italian Stockbroker owned by Agnelli. Earlier, I also helped set-up the London office of Blyth Eastman Dillon & Co Limited which was the Eurobond arm of this Wall Street broker. I also had a short spell with Shearson Rhodes Loeb, London. Then there was the three or four years I was with the London office of White Weld & Co., a blue-blood Wall Street broker that was eventually subsumed into Credit Suisse First Boston (CSFB). That was in the early 1970's at a time of great monetary flux for the emerging Eurodollar/Eurobond market. I was still young and surrounded by people who later grew to some prominence. For example, Stani Yassakovitch was a White Welder who later became Chairman of Western American Bank, later to become European American Bank. Then there was David Potter, just out of university and trading CD's. David later went on to become Chairman (or CEO -I can't remember which) of Samuel Montagu. Years later I met up again with him - at a Bond Conference in Helsinki of all places - when he joined Midland Bank where I was the treasurer in the Forfaiting division. I was at Midland throughout the eighties and helped fund a large number of financing packages for weapon deals - from Mortars for the Planagists in Lebanon to helicopter gunships for Turkey (but possibly bound for Iraq). I also worked on a package for F16's for, but can no longer remember if this was concluded or not or where they were destined. The division I worked in was Midland Bank Aval Limited (known as MidAval) which was wholly owned by Midland Bank Group International Trade Services (known in-house as "Mib-Gits"). Weapons financing and discounting Russian government "paper" were the two most important profit sectors we were involved in. Interestingly, MibGits was a commercial "cover" for Britain's SIS and SS (MI6 and MI5) and more than half a dozen intelligence officers worked there full time involving themselves in various international weapon deals and other forms of spookery. Back in 1983, MibGits hit the headlines when their Moscow Representative, Dennis Skinner, a career MI6 officer, was tossed out of the fifth floor window of his Moscow apartment block. Skinner had identified a KGB "mole" working in the British embassy in Moscow and the KGB took their revenge. One of the more senior MibGits officers was MI5 spook master Sir John Cuckney and his thug underling Stephan Kock. Kock has been identified by insiders (including, for example, Gerald James - former Chairman of the large armaments firm Astra) to have one time headed Group 13 - a "deniable" assassination group composed largely of former SAS types who operate – at arms length - on behalf of Britain's Foreign Office. Some years after I left the bank, I met up with Gerald in the coffee lounge of the Institute of Directors on Pall Mall. At the time I was conducting research for an article I was writing on Group 13. More than once, others sitting close gave us skewed glances as we discussed assassinations, arms deals and secret services -- not the sort of topic that most IOD members got to listen to very often. Gerald's book "In The Public Interest" is an extremely insightful reflection of Margaret Thatcher's Britain and in it he typifies Midland Bank (that is to say MibGits and MidAval - since we dealt with Astra, too) as "a veritable junction box of the UK establishment's arms dealing during the Iran-Iraq war." Midland (or rather HSBC) remains the principal British bank for weapon financing and is the beneficiary of something like 60% of all Government backed export credits (ECGD) according to a recent TV programme. Meanwhile, it turns out that during my years at White Weld & Co London, the firm was one of the principal players in the 1973 Oil price hikes and David Mulford was the WW man who was in charge of investing the huge Saudi Monetary Agency (SAMA) dollar surpluses (soon to be tagged in the media as "Petrodollars") in London, thereby kickstarting the Eurodollar market into the largest bond market outside the US. Interestingly, European American Bank (EAB) would also soon become known to the media when it took over the assets of the gutted Franklin National Bank, then owned by Mafia & Vatican financier, Michele Sindona. The short time I spent at Shearson Loeb Rhodes was also interesting. Shearson's offices were situated (unusually for an investment bank as they were miles away from the City) only a stone's throw from the US Embassy. This was at a time when Sandy Weill was the head honcho - years before he became Chairman of Travellers Corp. There was a guy in the office who was a high flying executive concerned with peddling very large syndicated loans to already over-indebted third world countries. I can remember him shuttling off to close a jumbo loan of $500 million to Brasil at a time when it was clear to everyone that Brasil was going belly-up. Interestingly, he was a former Green Beret in Vitenam. 2. What is The City? The City is the financial district of London that houses the principal indutsries of banking and finance, insurance, shipping. However, it is unlike Manhattan or Frankfurt or Zurich in that it really is a chartered city within a city in the sense that its borders are defined, it is governed by its own council and Mayor (at present the only Mayor of London is the Mayor of the "City" - with powers confined only to the City not the rest of London) and has its own police force distinct from the Metropolitan police who are responsible for the remainder of London. An example of the City's independence and that of its police force, occurred some years back when the Commercial Union Building (St. Mary Axe) and Nat-West Tower were bombed. Shortly after those events, the City police independently established a "cordon sanitaire" around the City of London with roadblocks on every access point. This just happened one morning and, of course, was played up by the media. The then Prime Minister, John Major, was angered because he hadn't even been consulted. This might not be such a big thing in the US but remember this is a small island that has always been run centrally and so it caused headlines. It is also abundantly clear that the hand that rocks England's political cradle is the City. This has always been true of the Conservative party who have been the favourite sons of the financial and foreign policy establishment. Historically, the labour party has been seen as the enemy but that has now all changed, too (if it were ever true?). The first decision Chancellor of the Excheque, Gordon Brown, announced on being elected to government was to make the Bank of England independent. In my view this was very clearly part of a pre-arranged deal with the City that provided the Labour party with funding and media approval - both of which led Labour being voted into power. 2a. What is a Freeman of the City of London? A Freeman is someone who has been given the "keys" to the City. It is a ceremonial honour. I think (I know one or two and they ain't special...but see below), but tends to be given to those who have worked in the Ward Clubs etc., -- which in themselves are often used as recruiting grounds for Masonry -- I was a member of a Ward Club and more than once offered membership to Masonic Lodges and I still know many Masons up to and including 33rd degrees (most are comparative dunces, I think, but I have to be careful as my father was also a Mason and "in the Chair" when he died (not literally) and I have the greatest respect for him as a genuine, honest, caring and generous person). But I diverge. The Ward Clubs form the backbone of the City political process and are also stepping stones to membership in the Livery Clubs which is where businessmen, power-brokers and politicians come together socially. For example, Goldsmiths, one of the top Livery Clubs has many bankers and included such figures as G C H Mathey (Johnson Mathey Bankers) and J H Hambro (of Hambros Bank). Margaret Thatcher was also (and probably still is) a member of the "Poulters" and the Queen Mother is a member of the "Merchant Taylors," while Princess Juliana of the netherlands is with the "Carpenters," and the Duke of Edinburgh is the Master of the "Air Pilots & Navigators (I like the Navigators bit of the title particularly), where he was joined by Sir A Tuke of RTZ and Barclays Bank. But this short list is way out of date now. As one researcher put it, the Livery Clubs appear to be an "officer class" to the more numerous membership of masonry. Seems a sensible enough conjecture, I think. Lastly, there is the "Honourable Company of Freemen of the City of London of North America" which meet in Toronto and New York and which was founded in 1979, the year Thatcher came to power. It is reckoned to be an UKUSA "Special Relationship" sort of group 3. What led you into the heretical field of conspiracy research? I think my background in the City prepared me to dig deeper into some of the things I already knew about and to learn a great deal more about those things I didn't know about but wanted to learn of. Also, there were a number of books I read in the two years following my decision to leave the City that really opened my eyes. One of those was the book written jointly by Robin Ramsay and Steve Dorrell about all the dirty tricks that happened to former Labor Prime Minister Harold Wilson. That really was a wake up call. Another book that set light to my interest in these topics was Aarons & Loftus "Ratlines" and another was about P2, the Vatican bank (IOR) and the Banco Ambrosiano scandal. 4. How has conspiracy research effect your life? It keeps me poor, which is what I imagine is intended in a social engineering sense (rather than me personally). Be "good" and get a reward, be "bad" and be punished. Researching reality is one thing (and for some it is little more than a hobby), but trying to place segments of this reality in the public domain earns few brownie points - and even less money. In a world where money holds almost total sway it is only to be expected that it is also the means of reward and punishment. 5. What do you account for the non-discussion in the media of conspiratorial issues? Power and greed has to hide its true colours since deep down it fears the people it is fleecing will one day wake up. The best description I have read about this aspect of things are the observations made by Walter Lippmann who believed that society should be divided between a great vulgar, ignorant mass we call the "public," and the "elite" who would determine what was in the "national interest." This elite would form the national or state bureaucracy - the political/government class - who would dedicate themselves to the interests of private power and private wealth, making sure that their special "relationship" should never be revealed to the general public who, Lippmann said, "wouldn't understand." Damn right they wouldn't understand. Being daily ripped-off and perpetually lied to has a tendency to raise people's ire - and rightly so. Nowadays, the media have become the new political class who debate issues on TV and in our daily newspapers for us all to see. They are responsible for managing the news agenda of what can and what cannot be discussed or revealed. Very many honest and good journalists are aware of this as they have experienced the pressures that confine "sensitive" issues and have seen them thrust on the editor's spike. 6. What has been your experience in presenting conspiratorial stories to mainstream and other media outlets? Do you get honest reasonings? No honest reasoning that I have ever experienced and as for presenting such stories to the mainstream press - it is a virtual waste of time. In the past I have worked on TV documentary projects for months, and in some instances for years, but all to no avail. It was not that the producers and directors I was in contact with lacked interest or ability, but getting "commissioned" by a broadcaster on topics which are sensitive is an uphill struggle and rarely succeeds - at least in my limited experience of these matters. 7. What is the general British population acceptance of conspiratorial ideas? It measures somewhere between zero and nil. The is mostly due to the influence of the press and media, I think. There is a subtle awareness by many people that all is not right, but fear for the loss of their job or social standing - and just plain old fear - deters them from seeking answers. That's all it takes, really to keep the lid on things. 8. Are you considered a kook or . . . ? I have no idea how I am considered except by my family and their view is the only one that counts in my book. 9. As you know the field is rife with all sorts of mis- and dis-information. How do you deal with information? With great difficulty. So much of what is available cannot be proved and so many people who come forward with "inside" stories do so because they have their own personal agenda or else just wish to add to the white noise for reasons only known to them. The only antidote to this is to absolutely attend to the detail during research. There is also an increasing dependence to rely on documentary evidence to support a story under investigation. However, Sir William Stephenson (Intrepid) of WWII S.O.E. once observed (and I am paraphrasing) that documents (especially government documents) are the most easily contrived and the most to be distrusted. My experience in banking exactly parallels Stephenson's observation. I have seen vital papers manufactured to satisfy audit requirments or backdated to provide later support for action taken. I am also aware that other vital papers have disappeared in the blink of an eye. Auditors and inspectors certainly are aware that this happens but so long as they are not made directly aware of it they choose to remain unseeing. The same will be true with regard to government records. An equally important consideration for a researcher, I think, is deciding whether to investigate a particular new allegation that could be disinformation but which might also be pure gold. It often comes down to instinct or intuition -- a sense that says this might be true... check it out. I have spent months investigating certain stories only to trash them as fakes or as being too unreliable to continue. Other stories that appear genuine but which cannot be corroborated have to be filed away until such time as other information emerges in support of them. 10. Have you ever visited the US? If so what are your impressions? And if you haven't? What are your impressions? No one likes a foreigner to speak ill of their country and the immediate response is "what the hell does he know," or something similar. I, therefore, tread with care. However, I have visited several times both on business and on vacation and have formed the opinion that America is a paradox. On the one hand it has a profoundly impressive constitution (at least for Brits who have no written constitution at all), and numerous other important acts, like the FOIA. At the same time it is a society where crime is prevalent and society is divided along the fault lines of wealth. I have to say that I do not much like the prevailing spirit of success that acclaims only the winner but treats the also "also rans" as absolute nobodies. This, for me, is social engineering on a grand scale and is in urgent need of a detox. 11. I know you have been looking at the question of gold and its place in the world. What led you to that field of inquiry? I was contacted by someone who read an article I wrote about the Bank of England cover-up of the crash of Barings bank. This person had been involved in several gold transaction with Imelda Marcos as well as individuals in Indonesia. He had been arrested in England and charged with passing fraudulent papers. After a number of meetings and access to his files I believed what he was saying - that he was being set up. I began speaking to numerous contacts he had established in what can only be called the "black market" which is where "unofficial" gold is routinely transacted. That was four years ago and one thing led to another. 12. Does gold rule the world? I personally believe that greed rules the world. Gold just has the uncanny ability to spark off great gobs of greed. If, however, you mean does Gold rule the world financially, then I have to answer that I don't know. Yet. But it is very, very significant player. Meanwhile, the US dollar backed only by the good name of the United States is the world's reserve currency. The dollar is so pumped up on debt that it is beginning to fracture in a thousand places and, I think, a furious battle is taking place to shore it up behind the scenes. The US stock market survives as a bloated bubble supported by unseen hands engaged in unseen manipulations to keep it afloat. Insiders who know these support manipulations are taking place can predict what movements will occur and armed with this intelligence can engage in their own "manipulations" for their own financial benefit. 13. How large is the black-market in gold? And is there any "official" recognition of it? A couple of years ago I asked the Mining Correspondent of the Financial Times about the black market in gold. He answered with complete assurance that there was no such thing, that it was a myth. Since I had only just put down the phone with somebody else who makes their daily living dealing black gold and had been hot on the trail of numerous large transactions, I couldn't help but snort in derision. In my office I had numerous copies of signed contracts, bank account details, names of bullion officers at major international banks who were involved in black bullion transactions -- in short the whole "nine yards." What exists in reality is a two-tier system for trading gold that is governed by a pricing mechanism designed to rig the gold price. Officially, however, the black market in gold doesn't exist - just as the CIA doesn't deal dope. 14. Will all these oblique games of gold have any effect in the "real world?" They are already having a real effect, it's just mostly eclipsed from public view. 15. There seems to be quite the buzz on now about short sellers and the fed or ESF funds have been used to influence the market. What do you make of these "rumours?" Hardly rumours anymore. Fed Chairman, Alan Greenspan, has recently acknowledged that foreign central banks are engaged in manipulating the market to keep the gold price depressed. He says the Fed are not involved since they don't have any gold. The US Treasury does have gold, though - over 8,000 tonnes - but Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers is not answering questions. Estimates vary but I believe somewhere in the region of 14,000 tonnes of gold has been leased by central banks and gold banks. The leasor sells the physical metal and invests the cash flow - approximately $150 billion. I think the rest is back to the second part of the answer I gave in question 12, but the picture hasn't clarified just yet and hence this is speculation on my part. 16. Does black-market gold surface or are there just some "underground pools?" There are two entirely distinct markets, one official and one that is politely called unofficial. Black market gold virtually never surfaces as transaction are always consumated on a private basis – usually between two bank bullion officers acting for their bank clients. In this sense it is an "underground" market. Also, gold banks are, according to what I have learned, often are big players themselves. I also know of examples where black gold - in this case gold plundered during WWII - has been "leased" for 10 or 20 years to central banks and used to stabilise their currency or similar... some Marcos gold for example. 17. Are Sterling Seagrave's amazing revelations in "Yamamoto’s Dynasty" being discussed in the British Press? No. When Sterling was in London last October to launch his new book, the whole British media was entirely consumed by the Paddington train crash story and many of the book launch media engagements didn't work out. Besides the review I wrote for him I know of only one other. He has had better luck in France, but overall I don't think things are going as well as hoped. This might change for the American launch but you never know. Interestingly, I told Sterling some months before his launch that I doubted the media - and especially the US media - would give the book its deserved prominence. It was my view that there was (and is) too much going on in the world of gold to allow a frank discussion to take place. 18. Who do you see as the "power" factions today? Are these economic alliances also? I am no expert on this subject, and can only express a personal opinion which is that money invariably creates alliances and that these are often later followed by treachery. Organised crime is very clearly a far more powerful factor than most people give credit for. This was recently summed up in a post to the cia-drugs list by Brian Downing Quigg who quoted a paragraph from former DCI, Bill Colby's investment newsletter written shortly before he was suicided: "Strategic Investment Newsletter - Sept. 1995: "The Latin American drug cartels have stretched their tentacles much deeper into our lives than most people believe. It's possible they are calling the shots at all levels of government." There is also a extremely powerful fraternity of insiders at work in all the financial markets, I believe. These people are influential enough to rig markets, bring down national economies or spark off a stock market bubble. And, if necessary, they will kill to keep the wheel spinning to avoid others discovering that the game is rigged. The most scorn I have, however, is for the media who repeatedly forego honest investigation and engage in the most disgraceful partisan relationships with government and big business. This is wholly to the detriment of the citizen who has a right to expect the media discharge their function to inform honestly and fully. Lacking access to solid and reliable information obviously inhibits the ability of all of us to form clear judgements. The result is confusion and the splintering of opinion - in other words a de facto mechanism of control. 19. What do you see for the future? I really don't know but if the Swiss psychologist, Carl Jung, is correct, then things are going to get a lot worse before they get better. His essays on the personal and collective shadows are the most insightful I have ever read. I just don't see many people volunteering to stare at their shaving mirror each morning to see their very own demon blinking back at them. Until this happens to a sufficient number of people, Jung believed, then the collective shadow will just keep puffing itself up bigger and bigger as it draws more and more sustenance from each one of us, to the detriment of our clarity, values and the will to do anything about it. At the same time I see tremendous benefits accruing from the internet. The free circulation of information and the ability to communicate with others so rapidly is a great advantage. I think it is true to say that most people know they are being lied to by politicians and the media but the problem is that they don't really want to deal with that because of fear or sloth...or both. If they see others taking a stand it may make taking their own next step to reality a little easier. 20. What have been the most interesting, convincing and astounding realizations that you have encountered on your journey along the conspiracy trail? The gold story when it is finally made public is, in my view, of considerable significance because it is a shining example of how a great secret can be kept hidden from the public for so many years and because it is central to the history of the last fifty years and more. I also think the continuing revelations regarding the CIA's decades long involvement in narcotics peddling and their on-going close relationship with organised crime syndicates has been vital. That this has been conducted by a virtual handful of mostly private citizens -turned investigators/writers - who are absent of any real funding but are driven by a commitment to ensure that the truth is told, is a remarkable achievement. For me this shows that a few people of integrity can take on the might of government and big business and against all expectation, beat them. Also a big realisation for me was that the cold war was an artificial construct that lasted fifty years and which resulted, not in freedom, democracy or other social growth, but in a pervasive fog of fascism that shackles freedom, despises democracy and represses social development at every opportunity. Thank-you, David. --fini-- ----- Aloha, He'Ping, Om, Shalom, Salaam. Em Hotep, Peace Be, All My Relations. Omnia Bona Bonis, Adieu, Adios, Aloha. Amen. Roads End <A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org</A> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. 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