-Caveat Lector- > inri, I don't think from your position in Canada you can > possibly have a very clear picture of the school system > here. no, i must admit, that i probably don't. but if the average portrayed intelligence by the americans i speak to online is any indication then you guys really, really need to do SOMETHING and QUICK. the problem isn't that you don't know how to read or write or figure out change from a 10. it's that you seem to be, in many cases, stuck in the nineteenth century when it comes to social values, race relations, religion, etc.. collectively, you have an appalling lack of understanding of the history of even your OWN COUNTRY and you seem unable to grasp that you make up a tiny fraction of the world population. [a generalization, i apologize for those of you who are educated.] americans aren't the laughing stock of the internet [another generalization, i apologize again.] without good reason. to me, this high level of ignorance seems to merely show a lack of quality education where it really matters. perhaps this is intentional. but when people like david duke get significant amounts of the vote when they run for office, i blame a lack of quality education. when people blame high crime in cities on racial minorities instead of much more logical and obvious factors [poverty that was created by the ruling whites; drugs that were forced down their throats by the ruling whites; gangs that were created as protection from corrupt, primarily white, police officers, etc] then i blame a lack of quality education. when people like rudolph giuliani spray toxic chemicals on your cities to combat harmless viruses and barely a murmur is raised, i blame a lack of quality education. when your election is rigged and nobody gives a fuck, i blame a lack of quality education. we don't have problems like this in canada. i give the credit to a surplus of quality PUBLIC education. > Much of the problem is racial in nature in the fact of > crime, gangs and teachers being unable to maintain order > long enough to teach. i don't want to play your game. the problem here is not racial in nature, it's due to differences in monetary income. blacks, latinos, whites or martians all resort to crime when they have no other option to maintain a stable income. when one has no chance at a quality education [something vouchers will not alleviate. don't go back to that.] one generally has no marketable skills. when one has no marketable skills what is one to do? you can't even get a job at mcdonalds without a high school diploma, and it's difficult to obtain a high school diploma when your schools are falling apart, your government is pumping you full of opiates and you're surrounded with carcinogens; when one grows up surrounded by crime to the extent that it has become normal, to the extent that crack-cocaine is a normal past-time, to the extent that a well paying job is merely a pipedream....what do you expect to happen? huh? and where does this all come from? eh? who runs eli lilly? of what race are the drug-running politicians? of what race are the arms-running politicians? who dragged these poor people, kicking and screaming i might add, from their home....enslaved them...brainwashed them through religion and then kicked them out on the street empty handed when they finally had enough of it all and fought back for basic human rights? eh? who's fault is this REALLY? i see i have played your game. i do not blame ALL whites. i blame SOME whites. i would be foolish not to blame some minorities. i repeat: the problem is NOT racial. >I do not think vouchers will result > in racial segregation as schools will probably have some > sort of racial quota requirement. the bush administration is vehemently against quotas. >If it should result in > segregation, who is to blame? the people who orchestrated it. >The schools have been fully > integrated for thirty years so why did this not work? because it was designed not to. >Whose > fault is it? those who orchestrated it. > Do black children miraculously learn > more/better if in immediate proximity of white ones? racial prejudice is a learned trait. when carried out effectively, desegregation in schools helps prevent it from becoming learned. racism is virtually dead in canada - an idea held in regard only by the uneducated and the perpetually ridiculed, completely powerless christian right. we recently held our first gay marriages here. virtually all support it. i give credit to a superior PUBLIC education system that teaches inclusion, acceptance, equal rights to all.... what do you think of this? <snip> there seem to be two sides to the story that you just told: your over-represented white supremecist side and an under-represented black side, most likely with a paranoid "everybody-is-out-to-get-me" view of the world. i therefore do not plan on commenting on this story as i am unaware of the facts, no doubt both sides would be guilty of sensationalism and misrepresentation. i generally don't believe much of what is spewed from obvious white supremecists such as yourself. however, i believe i can somewhat accurately deduce the following: 1) if blacks were accused of crime than there were most likely some blacks guilty of crimes. however, i see no reason to assume that ALL blacks are therefore guilty; nor do i see any reason to associate their guilt with their skin colour. you need to educate yourself on causality. 2) if there were charges of racism on the other side then there is most likely some truth to it. it would not surprise me if, after growing up in your household, your child was beaten for uttering racial slurs or whatnot. there is also a long history in the south of whites making schools less than hospitable for blacks, so it would not surprise me if some of the apparent paranoia was justified. however, once again, this does not imply that all whites are racist nor that all crimes seemingly done by blacks were manufactured by whites. in closing, i'd like to offer my apologies for bringing these arguments (which i tend to view similarly to an argument with a member of the flat earth society - i was not expecting this to be an issue here) to the list and my condolences for all of you unfortunate enough to live in a country that is backwards enough to continue to promote racism. inri np: dead kennedys - fresh fruit for rotting vegetables <A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org</A> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. 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