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THE DAFYOMI DISCUSSION LIST
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Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
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Re: Melachim II 011: Asalyah and her Murderous Plans
David Goldman asked:
>>Greetings. I was thinking over these issues on Yomtof, and was wondering
what you may think about these matters. I don't find them addressed in
meforshim, especially the Meam Loez..........
1) The killing by Shaul Hamelech was not of ALL Kohanim, only those in Nov,
except for Aviatar, yet the punishment Chazal describe of the House of
Dovid Hamelech was on ALL his descendants for affiliating with the house of
Achav (except for Yehoash). Thus this is lechoyra a lack of symmetry.
This was in addition to the destruction by Yehoram, Asaliah's husband of
all his own brothers, and then subsequently the loss of all his sons in the
war with the Arabs/Emorites, except for Achaziah, the father of Yehoash,
and all their sons (grandsons of Yehoram) by Yehu.
2) The gezeyra given to Yehu ben Nimshi was apparently ONLY on the males of
the house of Achav (aside from Izevel). Likewise, although Asaliah sought
to kill "kol zera hamelucha" she did NOT seek to kill her daughter,
Yehosheva/Yehoshvat, who may equally have had children of Beis Dovid by her
husband, Yehoyada.
Thus, one could certainly ask how Asaliah planned to exterminate the house
of Dovid if her daughter and possibly other females survived and had
children who were descendants of Dovid.
3) Had Achaziah not been killed, presumably Asaliah would not have planned
to destroy all the members of the House of David, so why was it that only
with the death of Achaziah the Sefer Melachim indicates that she decided to
carry out this revenge, and not upon the deaths of her own parents by
Yehu?! Why didn't she seek to destroy Yehu, who was the one who killed them
instead?
4) Why did Asaliah not decide to be the same type of (negative) influence
over a young king Yehoash that she was on his father, her son, Achaziah as
the queen regent?
5) Apparently Yehoash's mother Tsivia was dead when Asaliah took over,
otherwise Tsivia would have become the Queen mother.
6) Why did Asaliah run out to the Beis Hamikdash unprotected by her own
retinue of guards to condemn the crowning of the child instead of accepting
it and waiting for a time when she could affect the child king, especially
since it was her own grandchild, of the house of Achav?? By killing all the
zera hamelucha, who was she planning to succeed after her own death if not
Yehosheva herself or Yehosheva's child?<<
The Kollel replied:
>>...
3. According to the above ideas, we may now also have an answer to question
#3. Asalyah's main aim was not to gain revenge against Yehu but rather to
grab power for herself. (Possibly there was a certain element of revenge
involved, but at any rate it was not the chief motive.) Therefore, as long
as Achazyah was alive, she did not see that the door was yet open to her
gaining power.
Before I go further, I should just note that I forgot to write above that
the explanation of the Abarbanel is quite similar to that of the Yad David
to Sanhedrin 95b that I cited in my earlier reply, namely that the aim of
Asalyah was principally to kill all of the royal seed who might present a
challenge to her claim to the throne, and not necessarily to kill all of
the seed of David.
(It is interesting to note that the Abarbanel was a government minister in
the Portuguese and Spanish government, and that the author of Yad David was
the head of the so-called "Sanhedrin" which Napoleon tried to establish, so
both were familiar with political life.) <<
David Goldman commented:
>>Thank you for your reply. The clarification on #3 is very valuable. I am
ashamed to say I never heard of the Yad Dovid commentary - But it's
interesting that Asalya must not have feared a challenge from other
branches of the family who would certainly have had much more claim than
she did, even if the descendants of Shlomo were killed. And of course it
would seem that had Achaziah not been killed she would have accepted his
child, i.e. Yoash to succeed him, especially since he too was a descendant
of Achav. Indeed, the death of her own mother seemed to play no role in her
behavior as compared to the death of her son, and she apparently had no
plans for her own successor..
And of course it can be assumed that when Yehoshafat married his son
Yehoram to Asalya he thought she was a tsadekes. But then Yehoram became
king and wrongly invoked his authority to kill his own brothers as moredim
bemalchus, probably under the influence of his wife, but may have had
reasons he thought were leshem shomayim.....for which Eliyahu told him his
family after him would be destroyed....<<
The Kollel replied:
>>For the moment I am just going to make a short comment on the motives
behind Yehoshafat marrying off his son, Yehoram, to Asalyah.
We learn in Tana d'Vei Eliyahu Zuta #3 that the Midrash lists different
reasons fir why people get married. The Midrash states, "From where do we
know that if a man marries a woman in order to achieve greatness,
eventually someone will rise up from that family and will decrease his seed
after him, and he will not inherit the world that he aspired to? We learn
this from Yehoshafat, the king of Yehudah. He married into the family of
the king of Yisrael because he saw that Achav had 70 sons, as is said
(Melachim I 22:45), 'And Yehoshafat made peace with the king of Yisrael.'
As a punishment for this marriage, Asalyah rose up and killed all the sons
of Yehoshafat. If not for the covenant that ha'Kadosh Baruch Hu made with
David ha'Melech, Yoash would also have been killed, and the Kingdom of
David would have been abolished entirely."
We see that even though Yehoshafat was a very great Tzadik himself,
nevertheless he was attracted by the power and greatness of Achav, and took
Achav's daughter for his son. Possibly he thought that Yehoram would be a
good influence on her, but at any rate we see that the opposite happened.
There is clearly a lot more still to write on this, but I will close here
for the moment.<<
David Goldman commented:
>>Thanks again. I just spent some time reviewing the sections in Melachim
and looking into Seder Hadoros. In fact, there doesn't seem to be anything
to explicitly say that Achav himself actually BELIEVED or served avoda
zarah, for we know not only how he respected the Torah but how learned he
was. I was thinking that what he did was to ACCOMODATE goyim from Phoenecia
in Eretz Yisroel by letting them have a Baal center and import their
priests for their activities, and this would be as IF he himself worshiped
them, and was deserving of the punishments he got, with the heilige neviim
considered as "fanatics" interfering with his foreign policy (since Achav
was a very important world leader).
Plus, his marriage to Izevel was probably with the original intention of
doing what Shlomo did, i.e. to bring other nations to Hashem, including
marrying the daughter of Paro. It must be the case that Izevel was
considered a real sincere convert, but the interests of international
politics got the best of her and Achav.
Achav became king just 3 years before Yehoshafat, so the big kasha is HOW
could Achav BEFORE being king have 70 sons in Shomron and 70 in Yezreel
(Tirtzah)??!! Only a king would have been in a position to have so many
wives that he could have that many children by the time Achav himself
became king. So did Yehoshafat saw spiritually that Achav would have that
many sons over the next 20 years?
When Yehoshafat made the mistake of allowing his son to marry Asalya, both
were in all likelihood young teenagers (Yehoram was 38 when he became king,
so if he got married just after his father became king, he would have been
around 15 years old). Yehoshafat continued the mistake, allying with Achav
against Aram some years later (perhaps AFTER Asalya married Yehoram), and
was criticized by the prophet Yehu, by which time evidently Achav allowed
baalism, but interestingly was not HIMSELF punished directly.
We can be sure that Yehoshafat meant 100% leshem shamayim with heilige
heshbonos to reunify the tribes, but which was a mistake, even if he
determined that Achav HIMSELF (nor even Izevel) did not worship the baal
(but merely allowed it to develop for reasons of international politics, a
sin that was as if he himself DID worship it, ...."kechut hasaara").
So we see that always in those times the TUM'AH of accomodating goyim or
compromise at that time was a huge klippa that was intolerable in and of
itself, even if Yidden (or even their leaders) did not really directly
associate with it ("lekaf zechus") but merely tolerated it. For tolerating
EVIL can be considered as if one did the evil himself, which even Shlomo
incurred punishment though he was a holy tzaddik 100%. Our neviim were
always considered to be exaggerating fanatics by their opponents who
claimed they themselves were sticking to the basic requirements.
BTW, I wasn't suggesting the notion of "international politics" in the
modern megushamdike way. The erroneous intention of Achav had spiritual
implications lefi shitaso, as related to his greatness in the world even
vis a vis Yehuda.<<
The Kollel replied:
>>1) Melachim I 16:31-3 tells us about Achav: "He went and worshipped the
Ba'al and bowed down to it. He erected an altar for the Ba'al... And Achav
built the Asherah...."
2) However, while it seems clear that Achav did worship Avodah Zarah, it
still requires further inquiry into why he did so.
3) The Talmud Yerushalmi (Sanhedrin 10:2) tells us that one of the
Amora'im, Rebbi Levi, spent six months expounding the verse (Melachim I
21:25): "But there was none like Achav who gave himself over to do that
which was evil in the eyes of Hashem." Rebbi Levi continually explained
this verse in a negative way.
The Yerushalmi relates that one night Achav came to Rebbi Levi and said to
him: "What crime have I done to you and what offense have I committed? You
cite the first part of the verse, but why do you not cite the second part:
'Whom Izevel his wife stirred up'?"
4) Here we have a suggestion that Achav's bad deeds did not originate in
himself, but were inticed by his wife.
5) There is another very important factor involved in the worship of Avodah
Zarah by the kings of Yisrael. We learn this from the Gemara in Sanhedrin
102b. The Gemara relates that Rav Ashi, who redacted the Talmud Bavli,
announced once that on the next day he would be going a class about "our
friend" King Menasheh, who is listed in the Mishnah (Sanhedrin 90a) as one
of the kings (together with Achav) who did not merit a share in the Next
World. Menasheh came to Rav Ashi in a dream and hinted to Rav Ashi that he
should not have referred to him as his equal in Torah scholarship. Menasheh
asked Rav Ashi a difficult Halachic question which Rav Ashi was unable to
answer. Menasheh explained to Rav Ashi clearly the Halachah involved. Rav
Ashi replied, "Since you are so wise, why did you worship Avodah Zarah?"
King Menasheh replied: "If you would have been there, you would have lifted
up the hem of your cloak so that you could run quickly and follow me to
worship Avodah Zarah."
Rashi explains that the Yetzer ha'Ra to worship Avodah Zarah was so
dominant in those times that it swept almost everyone up with it.
6) Accordingly, I do not think it was international politics that dictated
the activities of Achav, but actually it was something much stronger than
politics, namely the Yetzer ha'Ra.
7) The Chazon Ish (Collected Letters 1:209) expresses it very incisively
when he writes that our understanding of how it can be that people who were
so great in Torah were nevertheless so strongly attracted to Avodah Zarah
can be compared to the understanding that a color-blind man has of colors!
There is still a lot more to write but I will close here for the moment.<<
The Kollel added:
>>1) I thought I should just mention one more source to show that the
verses about Achav worshipping idols are to be taken literally and are not
merely an exaggeration. The Gemara in Chulin 4b quotes Rav Anan in the name
of Shmuel that one is allowed to eat from the Shechitah of an apostate to
Avodah Zarah. The proof is the fact that Yehoshafat, king of Yehudah,
enjoyed the feast of Achav. We see from here that it was obvious to Chazal
that Achav was considered a Mumar for idol-worship according to the
Halachah.
2) Now to the question of whether Izevel was a convert: The Ralbag on
Melachim I 16:31 writes that she did not convert.
Indeed, while we find many self-contradictory aspects of Achav's
personality, and many good attributes that he possessed, we do not seem to
find any positive features about Izevel.
3) I will make a brief reference to a fascinating passage in the Kuzari, by
Rebbi Yehudah ha'Levi, relevant to our topic. The Kuzari (4:14) writes that
there is a big difference between Achav and Yeravam. Those who worship the
Ba'al are total idol-worshippers, and this is what Achav and his men did.
In contrast, all of the deeds of Yeravam and his followers were for Elokei
Yisrael.
The reason I am citing this at this stage is that it seems that some of the
comments you made about Achav may be applicable instead to Yeravam. The
motives of the latter may have been political (although with somewhat
different political goals in mind), while it seems to me that Achav's
motives were deeper than political.
I hope that we might have time at some later stage to look at this Kuzari
in more depth.
4) Now to another source that also shows the complicated nature of Achav's
personality: The Gemara in Sanhedrin 102b quotes Rav Nachman who said that
Achav was "Shakul" -- equally balanced. He appears to be saying that Achav
was a "Beinoni" with an equal number of Mitzvos and Aveiros. Rav Yosef
challenged this teaching of Rav Nachman, because the verse tells us that
there was no one as evil as Achav, who dedicated his life to doing evil,
and thus how can one possibly say that Achav was half good? In addition,
Rav Yosef cites a Beraisa that says that every day Izebel used to weigh
gold Shekalim to be worshipped as idols, so clearly Achav was not a Beinoni!
5) The Gemara gives no defense for Rav Nachman from Rav Yosef's challenge.
However, I would like to suggest that Rav Nachman agrees with the idea that
I mentioned in the first reply (3), that Achav was influenced by Izevel.
Perhaps what Rav Nachman meant was that if you look at Achav's independent
deeds, without those aspects influenced by Izevel, then he indeed would be
50% good. It follows that the verse that Rav Yosef cited about him being
stirred up by Izevel, and the Beraisa about Izevel weighing the gold daily
for Avodah Zarah, do not disturb Rav Nachman, because Rav Nachman also
conceedes that Izevel had a disatrous effect on Achav.
I have to close here, but it seems that I have not yet covered all your
points, so I hope to do that soon.<<
David Goldman asked:
>>1. Thank you very much for your reply.
On Shabbos I was trying to understand further the significance of the
midrashim that describe the actions of Yishai in separating from his wife,
Natzeves bas Adael, and the events that followed.
First, why would Yishai have ANY doubts of his status at all after so many
years and all his children, since he was a member of the Sanhedrin, lived
at the time of Eli and Shmuel, and was the grandson of Boaz? SURELY, he
would have known that the halacha of Moavi and not Moaviya as expounded by
his own grandfather Boaz was Torah le-Moshe Me-Sinai, and not a mere sevora
as argued by Doeg.
Second, when the shifcha traded places with his wife, SURELY he would have
known that it was his wife. He was not being only the first time with her
as Yaakov had been with Leah and Rachel. He had many children from her.
Plus, the fact that Natzeves traded places meant that she herself knew
there was no doubt on the status of Yishai.
Third, WHY would anyone have had a chashash about her being mezaneh when
both she and the shifcha knew what had happened and could have explained
this to Yishai - or he surely would have known what had happened either by
his awareness or ruach hakodesh, and could never have been choshed his
wife, a tzadeykes. Doesn't the suspicion against her amount to motsi shem
ra, and being choshed bekesherim?! And if Yishai and his sons really felt
there was an issue of eshes ish, he surely would have divorced her and
declared her son at least a safek mamzer.
This sugya is very very hard to understand.
2. However, we also know that Eliyahu ran after Achav, and Ovadyah the
prophet served in his home, and Yehoshafat ate food in the home of Achav,
and married his son to Achav's daughter. Surely, if this avoda zara was
ke-pshuto, no one could have possibly had this respect for someone who was
a known and unrepentant idolator, who indeed would have been chayav misa
from the beginning. That is why I felt that the entire issue cannot be
ke-pshuto at all, but much more complicated. Indeed, is there any proof
that the kohanei baal were even Yidden, or that he actually intentionally
believed in the baal even beshituf?
Did he erect the altar and ashera FOR YIDDEN to worship OR was his
intention for the goyim from Tzur coming to Shomron, etc. etc. as part of
his role as tremendously important leader, and THIS would have been
equivalent to serving the baal from an intellectual yetser hara, as per all
the accusations of chazal because no one ever did something like this
before in Eretz Yisroel?
After all, many Yidden were not as great as he, and also had a yetser hara,
but they did not actually serve any idol, nor did the king of Yehuda who
also had this yetser hara. Even Achav's own son Yehoram did away with the
Baal center when he became king and was devoted to Elisha the prophet.
Where was his yetser hara? The argument about the yetser hara does not
seem to take this into consideration if it was true active avoda zarah. If
Menashe appeared to Rav Assi, one might wonder whether Rav Assi asked him
the kashe: "If it was such a hard challenge, why did so many people in
those times still manage to avoid avodah zarah, including Menashe's own
father, and his grandsons?!!"
3. Thanks again. I am digesting your email. Please forgive me for "beating
a dead horse," but I think this sugya has big implications if the events
are taken kepshuto.
People far less evil than Achav suffered great punishment than he did, and
here was someone who ostensibly violated the first commandments of the
Aseres Hadibros befarhesya!!
Even wars were fought and people killed over issues that were not as severe
as what is described about the ostensibly despicable shaygetz, Achav.
And the Nach tells us how great tsaddik Yehoshafat was, and here he was
associated with a filthy shaygetz. Even Eliyahu Hanavi gave him respect,
and Ovadyah even lived in the home of this despicable rasha.
Yet Chazal tell us many things that are positive about him (he was a
tremendous talmid chochem who must have learned Torah from erliche teachers
despite maintaining Dan and Beis El) despite his ostensible and actual
violation of the ikkarim of the Torah, plus causing who knows how many Jews
to sin by being oyver issur kares by having korban Pesach outside of
Yerushalayim. Plus IF indeed he lived with the shiksa who was considered
a wife and not a shifcha knaanis, here we have the tsaddik Yehoshafat
marrying his own son to the daughter of such people, either a goyta or the
daughter of someone else whose husband lived with a shiksa. Yet nowhere
does the novi condemn him for living with a shiksa (a kashe on the Ralbag).
And of course one could ask, why the novi Eliyahu would waste time on the
issue of teshuva for a person such as Achav if his activities were
kepshuto.
In any case, we do learn halachas out of what is discussed in Chulin
whether it was kepshuto or not.<<
The Kollel replied:
>>First, I will try to address the Parshah of Yishai and the Shifchah, etc.
1) Concerning the question of why should Yishai have had any doubts about
his status: The point is that we find many suggestions that the Halachah of
"Mo'avi but not Mo'avis" had not yet been universally accepted even by the
time of Yishai. We can see a hint at this from the crowning of David
ha'Melech, related in Divrei ha'Yamim I 11:1. We are told that all of
Yisrael said to David: "You are our bones and our flesh." According also to
the simple understanding of this verse, there is a suggestion that the
whole of the Jewish people were stressing that they believed that David was
entirely a part of the people. This seems to imply that there were some
people who had been suggesting that David was in fact not fully a part of
the nation and this was why they had to stress that they were fully in
support of the crowning of David.
2) The Vilna Gaon, in his commentary to Divrei ha'Yamim (cited partially in
Talelei Oros on Parshas Vayetzei, Bereshis 29:14, page 37: "You are my
bones and my flesh") writes that the reason why they had to say this was
that a protest had been made against David that he was not permitted to
enter the Kahal since he was descended from Ruth, the Moabite. This refers
to the opposition of Doag, cited by the Gemara in Yevamos 76b, who declared
that "instead of asking if David is fit to be the king, you should ask if
he is permitted even to marry a Jewish woman."
3) This is what Yishai anticipated. Even though he knew that the Halachah
was "Mo'avi but not Mo'avis," there may be a dissenting opinion. Therefore,
he wanted to ensure that his descendants would be accepted by everyone as
full Jews. He may not have been concerned only about a future king emerging
from his seed, but also about more everyday questions, such as that all of
his children would find good Shiduchim and that nobody should raise any
question mark.
4) Therefore, Yishai had the idea of taking advantage of the Halachah cited
in Kidushin 69a that if a person whose pedigree is questionable has
children from a Shifchah and afterwards the children are set free, they are
now totally Kosher.
There is still a lot more to write but I will close here for the moment.<<
The Kollel added:
>> I now continue to address the questions about Yishai and Natzeves.
1) If we look at the Gemara in Chulin 96a, we see why Yishai might not have
known that she was his wife. The Gemara there is discussing the idea of
"Tevi'us Ayin" -- recognition by a sort of intuition even though one has no
specific "Siman" (sign) with which to identify something. The Gemara
asserts that if one maintains that the Halachah is that we do rely on the
concept of "Tevi'us Ayin," then it is not possible to explain how a wife
could be permitted to her husband in the dark of night. The only
explanation for this is that he has a "Tevi'us Ayin" on his wife's voice --
the husband recognizes his wife's voice even though he cannot see her.
Otherwise, he would have to be concerned that she is not his wife. We learn
from this that in those times, the only way a husband would know that his
wife was his wife at night is that he recognized her voice. Evidently,
Natzeves did not speak and consequently Yishai thought that she was the
Shifchah.
2) Yishai had been separated from Natzeves for several years. The Gemara in
Yevamos 80b cites a case in which a husband went overseas and his wife gave
birth twelve months after the husband had left. Rava Tosfa'ah ruled that
the baby was Kosher, and not a Mamzer. It is a big Chidush that we can rely
on the very unlikely possibility that a woman gives birth at the end of a
twelve-month pregnancy. However, if the husband was away for longer, one
could not be lenient. Therefore, in the case of Natzeves, where everyone
else thought that she had not been with her husband for a few years, the
Halachah certainly would be that the child is illegitimate. This is the
Halachah as recorded in Shulchan Aruch, Even ha'Ezer 4:14, that if the
husband was away for more than twelve months, the child is a Mamzer. Even
if the husband and wife both say that it is their baby, we do not believe
them. In addition, I wrote in the previous reply that Yishai was concerned
about public opinion. He wanted everyone to be satisfied that his children
were capable of being king, or at least permitted to marry a Jewess, so the
story about Natzeves would be very disturbing for him because everyone
(apart from the very close family) would be extremely suspicious of the
pedigree of the son of Natzeves. If he would have divorced Natzeves, that
would have been an admission that it was not known who the father of the
child was, which certainly would have been very damaging for the good
Yichus of David.
I have now finished dealing with the Parshah of Yishai. Next, I will return
to the Sugya about Achav and Izevel, etc.
1) Concerning Eliyahu's policy at different times towards Achav, the
Kedushas Levi (Rav Levi Yitzchak zt'l of Berditchev), end of Parshas Chayei
Sarah, writes that the Tzadik has the power to raise up people, but there
are times when the Tzadik is unable to influence the Resha'im to do
Teshuvah. At such times, the Tzadik must hide himself away because of the
anger that the Resha'im arouse in this world through their sins, as
Yeshayahu says (26:21), "Hide for a moment until the wrath will subside."
This is why Eliyahu hid away (Melachim I 17:6) and was fed by what the
ravens brought to him; Eliyahu knew that the time was not yet ripe to raise
up the generation of Achav. However, later on, Hashem knew that the time of
good-will had arrived and Eliyahu would be able to bring back the people
through Teshuvah. Therefore, he commanded Achav (Melachim I 18:1), "Go and
appear in front of Achav," and he sacrificed the cow on Mount Carmel, as a
result of which everyone proclaimed that Hashem is Elokim.
In conclusion, Eliyahu went to Achav when it appeared that it was a
promising time for Teshuvah.
2) (a) Now to the question of how Ovadyah could serve in Achav's home. This
is addressed by Rav Tzadok of Lublin in Tzidkas ha'Tzadik #160. The
question starts from the verse in Mishlei 29:12, "If a ruler listens to
false words, all his servants are wicked." This verse is cited in Chulin 4b
to prove that it is not possible to say that the servants of Achav were
good people.
(b) The question is, if all the servants of the false rulers are wicked,
then how can it be that Ovadyah, who is described (Melachim I 18:3) as
greatly fearing Hashem, was the director of Achav's household? The Tzidkas
ha'Tzadik answers based on the Gemara in Sanhedrin 102b, where we are told
that Achav was "Vatran b'Mamono" -- he was generous.
(c) I may just add at this stage that in our times, when we hear about a
politician being generous, we might tend to suspect that this is an
exercise aimed at gaining public popularity. It should be stressed that
with Achav this was not the case; his generosity was a genuine unselfish
good trait to help others with Chesed (there are other examples also of
Achav genuinely helping the people).
(d) Now I will explain what Rav Tzadok writes, according to my
understanding of his ideas. If there is a ruler who is made up of good and
bad traits, then his servants will also be divided between good and bad
servants. Rav Tzadok writes that a ruler is comprised of the souls of his
servants and those subjugated to him. Since Achav's personality contained
some genuinely positive aspects, these positive aspects were reflected in
the servants responsible for the corresponding issues. So Achav's
generosity was managed by Ovadyah, who himself was outstanding in his
generosity, as we see from the fact that he hid away the prophets of Hashem
in the cave and supported them.
(e) To summarize, Achav had some good points, and Ovadyah was in charge of
directing the section of Achav's household that put these good aspects into
practice.
There is still a lot more to write but I will close here for now.<<
David Goldman asked:
>>Thanks again. This becomes more and more fascinating. So according to
tviyus ayin, nothing besides the voice would matter, i.e. physical shape,
perfumes, etc., since Yishai would presumably have recognized his wife from
these other aspects........ and neither the shifcha nor his wife could
provide satisfactory eydus in Beis Din to remove the safek? The safek
amount to him admitting that indeed he was possibly with her. That means
that he had a hava amina that the shifcha and Natzeves switched against his
will. How could they all have removed the safek that had such awful
implications? Especially since other people such as Achiya, Shmuel, Eli,
Yasra could have been consulted and confirmed that Moaviya was Torah le
Moshe MiSinai. Yet as I said before, it is extremely hard to believe he was
on the Sanhedrin with these people and would not be willing accept their
confirmations (lefi pshuto).
The explanations regarding Achav are really interesting Yet don't we still
have the fact of him being (lefi pshuto) an oved avoda zarah, and it would
have been assur to have anything to do with him, especially if he was
chayav misa for these aveyras (not to mention his wife), and at the end of
his life would have been cause for Yehoshafat not to eat his food before
the war with Aram?<<
The Kollel replied:
>>1) Concerning the question of how did Yishai not know that it was
Natzeves, and not the Shifchah, firstly we should be aware of the fact that
Yishai was one of the greatest Tzadikim of all time. In fact, the Gemara in
Bava Basra 17a states that there were four people in history who were such
great Tzadikim that they should not have died if the only reason for death
would have been punishment for sins. The only reason these four died is
that death was decreed upon the entire human race, whether or not a person
deserves, because of the snake who enticed Chavah to eat from the Tree of
Da'as. One of these four people was Yishai.
2) We find that when Avraham Avinu Sarah Imeinu had to go down to Egypt,
Avraham said to Sarah (Bereshis 12:11), "I now know that you are a
beautiful woman." It was only at that point that he noticed her beauty. The
Gemara in Bava Basra 16a learns from here that Avraham did not even look at
his own wife. We can assume that something similar applied to Yishai, too,
or at any rate he certainly did not know what other women looked like.
3) Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that he was not familiar with the
Shifchah. So when Natzeves came instead of the Shifchah, it is not so
difficult to imagine that he would not have known that this was not the
Shifchah, since he may have thought that all women were similar to his wife.
4) We may add that the Shifchah and Natzeves were presumably of a similar
height. In addition, if the Shifchah used a particular perfume it would not
have been difficult for her and Natzeves to arrange amongst themselves that
Natzeves would use the identical perfume.
5) Concerning the question about "Mo'avi and not Mo'avis," it was not
sufficient that Yishai knew himself that this was the Halachah; he was also
trying to ensure that no questions would ever be raised against his
descendants in the future. He wanted to ensure that in future generations
they would be considered by everyone as suitable marriage partners. Anyone
who has married off children knows that they only must they be be
Halachically acceptable, but also that public opinion -- which is not
always so well-informed about Halachah -- should be happy with the match.
This is especially true considering what we find in Yevamos 76b, that Doeg
did try to disqualify David. We certainly can understand what Yishai was
worried about in advance, that his offspring should be perfectly acceptable
to everyone. There are still unanswered questions but I will close here for
the moment.<<
---
The Kollel adds:
I posed to a Gadol the question discussed above concerning how is it
possible that Ovadyah was appointed over Achav's house, since we know that
if a ruler listens to false words, all his servants will be Resha'im.
He answered that, first, they force people to lie in such a situation, and
then it is permitted to lie for the sake of peace.
I will try to explain the idea that may lie behind this line of thought.
Ovadyah was in the household of Achav. This was certainly a very immoral
household, but Ovadyah had a very good reason to be working in this
household: he was able to save a bit of Jewish life for Klal Yisrael and
was able, at least to a very small extent, to protect the Prophets and the
other people who still kept the Torah and did not worship Avodah Zarah.
However, to be able to do this it was sometimes necessary to lie, and
Ovadyah certainly possessed a Heter to do so. Even though he possessed such
a Heter, he still sometimes had to employ the tactics that Achav's men
employed.
Kol Tuv,
Dovid Bloom
>>><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><<<
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