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Re: Zevachim 013: Rashi DH Mah l'Halan
Boruch Kahan asks:
>>In that particular Rashi on the Omud Aleph after the Mishnah Rashi points
out that the Possuk in Bamidbar is talking about Elozor and Isomor who
were Meshuchim.
But if you look at the context of the Pessukim in the Parshah the Possuk
refers to all 4 of Aaron's sons including Nodov and Avihu why does Rashi
not mention them or "Fakert" why does he seem to go out of his way that its
Elozor and Isomor ONLY and not Nodov and Avihu when clearly the Mashmous of
the Possuk in the Parshah is not like that. They only die in Possuk Daled
but the reference in the Gemoro is to Possuk Gimmel when it seems clearly
that ALL 4 OF THEM were Meshuchim.<<
The Kollel replied:
>>The way I understand it, Pasuk 3 is also referring only to Elazar and
Itamar. Pasuk 2 talks about all four sons. Then Pasuk 3 talks about the
Meshuchim, but it does not say explicitly whether it is referring to the
four in the previous Pasuk or if it is only referring to the two who
survived. I want to say that it is only referring to the two who survived.
Then Pasuk 4 continues and tells us that Nadav and Avihu died, but this
does not mean that they are considered as the Meshuchim mentioned in Pasuk
3, but on the contrary it is explaining to us why they are not considered
as Meshuchim, and only Elazar and Itamar are Meshuchim, because they are
the only ones who survived.<<
Boruch Kahan asked:
>>Shkoyach for your Terutz
I must disagree with you
There is no Mashmous in Possuk Gimmel that its only Elozor and Isomor and
not Nodov and Avihu if the Possuk says they were Niftar only in Possuk
Daled they must have been alive in Possuk Gimmel and I am sure that all 4
of his sons were Meshuchim so I still think Rashi had some other reason to
know that Nodov and Avihu weren't Meshuchim<<
The Kollel replied:
>>Reb Boruch, I have found that Rabeinu Bachye seems to be on your side!
1) This is Rabeinu Bachye on the Pasuk in Bamidbar 3:3. He deals with the
question why does the Torah repeat that these are the names of the sons of
Aharon, and why does it add that they were the "Kohanim ha'Meshuchim" --
the annointed Kohanim? Rabeinu Bachye explains that the Torah is teaching
that "Ha'Kadosh Baruch Hu Medakdek Im ha'Tzadikim k'Chut Ha'Se'arah" --
Hashem expects a much higher standard from the Tzadikim. That is why the
Torah adds that they were Kohanim ha'Meshuchim. We are being told that even
though they were on a very high Madregah -- as they had been annointed, and
their hands had been "filled" so that they could serve as Kohanim in the
Mishkan -- nevertheless when they transgressed an Aveirah, Hashem did not
forgive what they did, but took their lives.
2) One sees from Rabeinu Bachye that when the Torah says "ha'Kohanim
ha'Meshuchim," it is also referring to Nadav and Avihu, not like I wrote in
my first reply.
3) So now I have to try again to answer your question. I will attempt to
base my answer on what the Panim Yafos, by the Hafla'ah on the Chumash,
writes on the Pesukim. He discusses why 3:1 tells us who were the sons of
Aharon on the day that Hashem spoke to Moshe on Har Sinai. He writes that
Nadav and Avihu were part of the number of Aharon's sons only on the day
that Hashem spoke on Har Sinai but not afterwards. Since the Gezeirah that
Nadav and Avihu would die was passed already on that day (as Chazal
(Bamidbar Rabah 15:24) learn from Shemos 24:11, "And to the nobles of Bnei
Yisrael Hashem did not stretch out His hand," that at that time the death
sentence was pronounced upon them), this means that Nadav and Avihu can no
longer be counted as part of the number of four sons. From then on, only
Elazar and Itamar could be considered as Aharon's sons.
4) I understand that the Panim Yafos is saying a Peshat similar to the one
I was trying to say in my first reply. In Pasuk 3, Nadav and Avihu were no
longer considered to be amongst Aharon's sons. Even though they were still
alive, since the decree had already been made that they would die, they
were no longer considered as Kohanim Meshuchim.
5) I could add a little "Peshetl" which may illustrate my point a bit
further. The Gemara uses the term "a Kosher Kohen." We can suggest that
Nadav and Avihu were not considered as Kosher, but rather they were more
similar to a "Tereifah Kohen." A Tereifah is an animal that is destined to
die within a certain time period. Nadav and Avihu also could not live for
long, because the Gezeirah had been made that they would die, so they were
no longer considered as Kosher Kohanim.<<
---
The Kollel adds:
I sent your question to a Gadol and he replied: "Kvar Meisu."
That is, Nadav and Avihu had already died, so that is why Rashi only
mentions Elazar and Itamar.
Possibly, even if we say like Rabeinu Bachye that the Pasuk is referring to
Nadav and Avihu, nevertheless since they died in Parshas Shemini, by the
time we get to Parshas Bamidbar we understand that the important Kohanim
for practical purposes are Elazar and Itamar, so this is why Rashi mentions
only those who were still alive.
Kol Tuv,
Dovid Bloom
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