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Re: Yeshayahu 7: Nevu'ah of Birth of Chizkiyahu
David asks:
>>This is a moradike kashe. Given all the information in Sefer Melachim 2
and Divrei Hayamim 2 perek 28 about the ages of Achaz and Chizkiyahu, how
is it possible that the nevua of Yoshayahu in 7:14 could refer to the birth
of Chizkiyahu. It is mefurash that he became king at the age of 25 and that
his father Achaz was king at the age of 20 for 16 years. Thus when Achaz
was facing the Assyrians as king Chizkiyahu was already around 9 or 10
years old!
There are no references that I could find that Achaz lived longer than 36
years, or that he made Chizkiyahu a king when he was 15 years old, 10 years
before. It is inconceivable that Chizkiyahu could have been king during the
lifetime of his father with all the impurities around for 10 years.
And such an arrangement is mentioned nowhere.
Thus, the only teyruts I could think of is that the consolation of
Yeshayahu to Achaz is not meant as a nevua for the future, but a reminder
of what happened with Chizkiyahu's original birth 10 years earlier.
Looking into this further according to the shita that the nevua was about a
son of Achaz, the Redak and Abarbanel suggest it might be another wife's
son, not Chizkiyahu. This person is never described in Chazal or Tanach, so
how could the birth of such a son be so important, especially to a person
like Achaz?!
What are your thoughts about this?<<
The Kollel replied:
>>David, I agree that this is an excellent Kushya!
1) In fact, it is asked by Rashi. Rashi to Yeshayahu 7:14 writes that the
baby born cannot be Chizkiyahu because Chizkiyahu was born 9 years before
his father became king. Therefore, Rashi says it must be referring to a
different son of Achaz.
2) However, this son was very significant to Achaz. The point is that the
birth of this son was a great test to Achaz. The test was: did he trust in
Hashem? To our regret he failed the test. The reason we do not see a
description of this son elsewhere is because Achaz missed his tremendous
chance.
3) The "Os" that Hashem was giving to Achaz was a sign that He wanted to
help Achaz if only Achaz would believe in Hashem. Achaz was fighting
Retzin, the king of Aram, and Pekach ben Remalyahu, the king of Yisrael.
Hashem was giving a sign to Achaz that "Imanu Kel" -- "Hashem is with us."
This wonderful boy would eat butter and honey, would do only good things,
would shun all bad things. This was symbolic of what Achaz was capable of
doing if he wanted to. Rashi writes that Ru'ach ha'Kodesh would rest upon
them if only they would go in the ways of Hashem and the Torah. If Achaz
would utilize his great potential and abilities to do good things, then
Hashem would save him from his enemies.
4) This is what we are told in verse 16. The two hostile kings would leave
Eretz Yisrael if Achaz would act properly.<<
The Kollel added:
>>1) I found a Midrash Rabah which does understand that Yeshayah 7:14
refers to Chizkiyahu. This is in Bamidbar Rabah 14:2. The Midrash states
that there were four people in history who recognized Hashem on their own
initative. They are Avraham Avinu, Iyov, Chizkiyahu, and the Mashi'ach.
2) The Midrash writes that the proof that Chizkiyahu recognized ha'Kadosh
Baruch Hu on his own is from Yeshayah 7:15: "He will eat butter and honey
from his own intelligence." We see that the Midrash understands that the
Nevu'ah of Yeshayah refers to Chizkiyahu.
3) I am not going to try too hard to reconcile this with the chronological
facts, because we have already seen that the Rishonim we cited (Rashi,
Radak, Abarbanel) wrote that the Nevu'ah cannot be referring to Chizkiyahu.
It seems, therefore, that they probably understood that the Midrash Rabah
is not to be taken literally, but is a Derash.
4) However, after making that comment, I could also support your idea,
David, that this was not a futuristic Nevu'ah, but actually was intended
for Chizkiyahu, who had already been born. It may be possible to support
this from the way the Mefarshim explain the word "Os" in 7:14. The Gra here
writes that this "Os" is not a "Mofes." This seems to mean that it is not
something supernatural, but rather a "Siman." It is a sign from Hashem, Who
knows from the beginning what is going to happen in the end. The Malbim
also writes that there was nothing supernatural about this "Os." Rather,
the fact that the child was called "Imanuel" was a sign that Hashem is with
us.
5) Along these lines it might be possible to understand the Midrash that
the child was Chizkiyahu who had already been born. This very special child
was a sign that Hashem is with us and helping us, and that in his days
there will be plenty of butter and honey. This is symbolic of the great
flourishing of Torah learning that would blossom in Chizkiyahu's times. The
Gemara in Sanhedrin 94b tells us that Torah knowledge became so widespread
then that there was not a single person in the whole of Eretz Yisrael who
was not expert in the complex Halachos of Tum'ah and Taharah (see Gra to
Yeshayah 7:15). This may be the symbolic meaning of the prophecy in
Yeshayah 7:22: "So much milk will be made that he will eat butter. Everyone
remaining in the Land will eat butter and honey."<<
---
David asks:
Yes, but this Achaz was ostensibly a shaygetz who passed two children to
Molech in addition to other despicable aveyras, and presumably would
deserve to be killed much more so even than Achav, Yoash, Achaziah etc.
rather than the attention of the navi.
By contrast we can see the case of Yehoyakim the king, (who ostensibly did
terrible things kepshuto) in Yirmiyahu chapter 22, 18-19 and chapter 36
starting at posuk 30, and was specifically punished by misa meshuna based
on the prophecies of Yirmiyahu, yet this was not done in the case of Achaz.
Although even in this case based on Sanhedrin 103 one wonders how either he
or Achaz could have lived as long as they did (as compared to Amon) though
they were still very young barely into their twenties.
I now see the extremely interesting discussion at
http://www.dafyomi.co.il/sanhedrin/insites/sn-dt-103.htm
(Ironically the discussion of the dreams in Berachos 57a of arayos are not
discussed in the context of doing teshuva for such things coming into a
dream, but as omens for other unrelated things, which I guess is a
significant nechoma in and of itself.)
Thank you for the reference to the Midrash Rabba. I hadn't known about it
when I thought of the explanation. Baruch she-kivanti.
I guess it's sort of amazing that the meforshim (especially Rashi) don't
even mention it but rather want to stick to a direct pshat explanation.
Indeed, we do find so many cases where explicit statements in Tanach are
said not to be understood in a literal sense despite the fact that Hashem
in the Torah or the Neviim uses literal terminology.
A good shabbos to you.
DG
-----------------------
The Kollel replies:
Achaz had a very important advantage over the others. The Gemara in
Sanhedrin 104a tells us that Achaz was ashamed of himself in front of
Yeshayah and tried to avoid him. He hid his face from Yeshayah, or he put a
vessel over his head so that Yeshayah should not recognize him. Achaz was
embarassed of his actions before the great Navi. So, presumably, Yeshayah
couild not really give him Tochechah because Achaz was always running away
from him. This was certainly much better than Menasheh, who killed his
grandfather Yeshayah.
Based on this Gemara, the Malbim (Melachim II 21:11) writes that Achaz
sinned "l'Tei'avon" -- he sinned because of his lusts, but Menasheh was
worse because he sinned "l'Hach'is" -- in order to anger Hashem.
There is a siginificant difference between the time of the kings and the
time of the Gemara with regard to the dreams mentioned in Berachos 57a.
This is connected with another reply I sent about the Gemara in Yoma 69b,
where we learn that the Yetzer ha'Ra for close relatives was annulled by
the Anshei Keneses ha'Gedolah after the destruction of the first Beis
ha'Mikdash. The Gemara in Berachos there mentions three dreams in
succession: (1) The person having relations with his mother, (2) having
relations with his sister, (3) having relations with a married woman. After
dream (3), the Gemara says that it has a positive interpretation only if he
did not know the woman and had no thoughts about her beforehand. The
question is, why does the Gemara make this condition only about dream (3)?
The answer is that nowadays people do not have a Yetzer ha'Ra for a mother
or a sister, so if a person had such a dream we can assume there was
nothing negative about it, and therefore the dream has only a positive
spiritual meaning and no Teshuvah is necessary for it. In contrast, we
learned in Yoma 69b that they managed to annul only the Yezter ha'Ra for
close relatives, not for other women. Therefore, the dream about the
married woman can be positive only if we know that it has no other
explanation.
All of the above applies only after they annulled the Yetzer ha'Ra for
close relatives. However, in the time of the first Beis ha'Mikdash, the
latter Yetzer ha'Ra still existed. Therefore, if Achaz, Menasheh, Amon,
etc. would have had such a dream, we would not have assumed that it was
favorable. (This idea came to me from reading one of the Mefarshim cited by
the Mesivta edition of Berachos 57a.)
Kol Tuv,
Dovid Bloom
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