Why the hell should we go on #debian on OPN when you so much as admitted that the ops on it have some kind of power trip: devoicing instead of rebutting when they have an issue with what's said? If I help somebody, I really don't want to have to stay politically correct: getting the problem solved is much more important than keeping somebody's ego stroked. It sounds like ATM I could not in good conscience recommend that a newbie get help on OPN, because it sounds like the people who are genuinely trying to help are also the ones that cannot speak.
On Wed, 3 Jan 2001, Jim Lynch wrote: > > > > Date: 03 Jan 2001 15:23:09 +0100 > > To: debian-devel@lists.debian.org > > From: Peter Makholm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: Re: bugs + rant + constructive criticism (long) > > > > Jim Lynch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > If you want to advocate the use of unstable software, please be my > > > guest... > > > but not on #debian. it changes daily, and can potentially break every > > > > Again, what is you right too say so other than it is you oppinion? > > It's more than opinion, it's fact for reasons already stated; It's not > smart to run debian dists that are not released/stable on mission-critical > servers. It sometimes causes those servers to break, sometimes in nasty > ways. I've seen it happen over and over again. People sometimes get fired > from their jobs over this. ("Sometimes" is good news: in many instances, > debian performs extremely well in mission-critical situations, most of the > time when the packages all fit together and do not change.) > > When machines break for whatever reason, sometimes people come to > #debian for help. It's unhelpful to encourage people to break their > mission-critical servers... If Eric wants to do it himself, fine. > If he wants to say he did it, fine too, if he warns about instability > (which his original letter shows he had plenty of.) He said he helps > on the channel, and that's fine. But it's not fine to be unhelpful > when others have to try to help undo the damage it causes. > > I'm not even saying he did; I'm just letting him know, so that if > he does tell someone who is (say) new, who has a job tending a mission- > critical server that they should run unstable on it, then gets quieted > by me on channel, he'll know why :) But, as I use the quieting as an > opportunity to have a short, private discussion of the matter usually > followed by an unquieting, it's not a big problem. > > (these are fairly narrow circumstances; I may widen them somewhat > depending on the situation.) > > Of course, not many developers like coming to #debian due to its > present noisiness and relative newbishness, or maybe for other > reasons; there used to be more (heck, it used to be all-developer, > before the channel was known.) But I'm presently one of the channel > operators, so I make decisions, and I act. > > If you want to discuss rights of myself and others to act, please > come to the channel and help out for about a year. Then discuss; > you'll know what's up then. As for myself, I've been around #debian > since very close to its inception; possibly as long as 6 years ago. > > -Jim > > > -- Pardon me, but you have obviously mistaken me for someone who gives a damn. email [EMAIL PROTECTED]