-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On 07/03/2014 01:40 PM, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
> Hi, > > Thorsten Glaser: >>> Can we get over this now and start making Jessie the most awesome >>> stable release we've ever prepared together? >> >> To do that, it MUST work without systemd, if alone for upgrade >> scenarios. >> > It must work without systemd well enough to be able to cleanly reboot > the system from the GUI, after upgrading. > > Anything beyond that is nice-to-have, but definitely NOT required. I, for one, would be highly displeased if a routine dist-upgrade to testing required me to reboot to avoid having things break. I generally dist-upgrade my primary computer to testing about once a week, give or take, but I don't reboot it more often than once a month - more commonly three to six months, and I'd prefer that to be longer if possible. (And often when I do reboot, it's due to a power outage that overwhelms my UPS.) Yes, this means that I don't get the benefit of some of the upgraded packages (e.g. new kernels) until I do reboot - but nothing breaks, either. Given the inconvenience of needing to shut down everything I'm doing (including dozens of xterms, many with running programs) to reboot, and manually bring up what parts of it I can afterwards, I'm entirely willing to live without those benefits in the interim. Regardless of how I feel and what I've argued in the past about systemd et al., I wasn't previously planning to actively avoid letting systemd get installed on my system. However, if letting it get installed will mean things will thereafter be broken until I reboot, I don't see much choice in the matter; I'll have to block it from installing until I'm ready for a *planned* reboot, which are vanishingly rare for me. I would argue that in order for Jessie to be "the most awesome stable release [...] ever prepared", it must work without systemd well enough to let everything that worked before the upgrade to Jessie continue to work equally well until the user decides to reboot - whether that's immediately, or six months down the line. Previous releases could successfully be used that way, after all; I've done it with at least one of them. - -- The Wanderer Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny. A government exists to serve its citizens, not to control them. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJTthz0AAoJEASpNY00KDJrUYYQAK5mLMWhN/Q0Zo0z+fhwjDKt bqHSguTMpACHe+K3PrwpayjtXA7y4ySHf2BoXJuLmEbR7WGRUcnY3rQLJEArtN1h M6bH9bxZu03SeMiagcY4M8prhTQ3dAN7CYX+vCBAuVi5l2oQD0yi2JgMIIGBLEmy 5wzSFX/zKtKHQuvUHS+oNLI5BALcD4T/ItBOZryl9jCh7vnW5GFQe8IDneyt7sXs 1wBgFaMZkNtQQtwxZ5Ug6LEh2ydXRG1RPrqVntNbRGNNWipKHjBcI8k5jVbj21sC 1FUkcvXvC2uV0RhOg+aCc+cilLqheYobHyDHnDZEsxnMpaamM5aW/DbpJmwmKMv5 jOTTifQuieyhmxHcUlMPjS/mTTZLxDZpHDVn2V1AZ6IIb7u4AS+03cDhB8aEfQOA 8JOHcuJKi+LTdkSOozxXbO8uxLCN310MKye/51/EMSlZmbm+8LND/+bSHUL4mBtl CTwBWqUHuDfGi+/HV1GAglz0ZSAXGE1HFR2678niIByfUA+vPa2uq6hklRnmBthX bi26AdRIwF3xD9Q/eJKTdoFLMp3YjcmKks1igEV8wsacQg9XgABkfIBqgbkMw5+L w3N9mB7rGyxxFdv0KbqkT4TcXOG8Du6XVqtbndN0MUOOex2jDuv2YPyu4kHEQFCe Wb/VaBf2qLJXDGx8Wx9w =QG8/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53b61cf4.6010...@fastmail.fm