On Wed, Sep 14, 2022 at 11:36 PM Felipe Sateler <fsate...@debian.org> wrote: > What does "switch right now" mean? Just switching gnome-core? What about > the other users? They would all have to switch their order from > `pulseaudio | pipewire-pulse` to `pipewire-pulse | pulseaudio`. Otherwise > you would have a different audio server depending on which order packages > are installed. Moreover, what about upgrades? Would they be forcefully > upgraded (ie, drop the pulseaudio alternative)? Or would they be allowed > to continue using pulseaudio (which wouldn't migrate them because the > dependency would be satisfied)? This is what I mean with
Yes, I noticed the upgrade problem. apt recognizes that the alternate dependency is already satisfied and doesn't install the preferred (first) dependency. So my draft was for gnome-core to unconditionally switch to pipewire: https://salsa.debian.org/gnome-team/meta-gnome3/-/merge_requests/7/diffs For context, gnome-core in Debian 11 "Bookworm" unconditionally depends on pulseaudio. > > This give us 4 months until the "transition and toolchain freeze" on > > 2023-01-12 [6]. We will also receive feedback from Ubuntu 22.10 (that is > > also doing the switch) planned to be released on 2022-10-20 [7]. > > Do you know what the transition plan for ubuntu is? Are they patching all > rdeps to switch to `pipewire-pulse`? For Ubuntu Desktop, the ubuntu-desktop-minimal metapackage depends on pipewire-pulse & wireplumber & recommends libspa-0.2-bluetooth. Ubuntu's metapackages are generated using germinate and alternate dependencies aren't supported at all. https://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/ubuntu/tree/desktop-minimal (Recommends are the lines with parentheses). In general, almost everything in Debian's GNOME metapackages are a hard Depends instead of a Recommends. In our experience, we get a lot of bugs and complaints about things not working correctly because there are a lot of people who believe it's a good idea to disable installing Recommends system-wide and have trouble understanding why their system doesn't run well. Interestingly, in Ubuntu, a lot of the ubuntu-desktop metapackage dependencies are just Recommends. But even there, the sound server is a hard dependency. pipewire and wireplumber are systemd user services. Maybe we just need to write up instructions for disabling PipeWire and switching to PulseAudio. Or maybe we could create a Debian package that handles this. That way we could keep the hard dependency in gnome-core so that upgrades do the expected thing, but there is an easy escape. However, I've not seen a single complaint from Ubuntu about switching to PipeWire. So maybe we still ought to switch gnome-core now to get real feedback. Thank you, Jeremy Bicha