Andreas Barth (2003-07-24 16:13:53 +0200) : [...]
> After looking at > http://nm.debian.org/nmstatus.php?email=erayo%40cs.bilkent.edu.tr I > don't believe that he is ever becoming a DD (and after the > discussion with him by mail I think that's also better). Well, he > was also the example in the recent discussion on d-d that DAM > currently doesn't reject people who don't have a real chance to get > into debian, but stalls their acceptance process. Eray popped up on IRC (#debian-devel on irc.debian.org) today and stated (at quite some length) his position, which I'll try to rephrase here. But first, a bit of background. Eray has been an NM applicant for years. When he joined the process, he managed to piss off a spectacular number of people, including (and that was probably not a good move, even if he couldn't know) Branden Robinson, who was particularly vocal at the time (yes, I believe Branden's cooled down since then). He insisted in calling himself a competent hacker (which irritated prople probably disblieve at least partly because of his attitude), calling people who disagreed with him incompetent. I seem to remember the word "fuckwit" was involved but I can't seem to find any source for that. He was also boasting about some grandiose plans which I can't remember (something about ontologies), but seemed reluctant to show any working code. He also maintained some packages (via the sponsorship system) that some people considered faulty, which only added to the, um, divergence of opinions. That resulted in some people calling other people names, lots of flaming, and generally no good. Probably as a consequence of both that state of affairs and the beginning of the "DAM problem", Eray became one of the first people running for the "longest DAM stage award". Since then, Eray has periodically popped up, got flamed, then gone silent again. Most people (as far as I know) have taken to ignoring him, while still being uncomfortable about the "Eray case" in the NM process. So he showed up on IRC today, demanded to talk to elmo (who didn't answer), started to be not-quite-rude-but-still-not-very-smooth to people present, and stated a few things that really got the heat started. Namely, that he had only 20 minutes a month to spend for Debian work (although he retracted that fact later), and that he wouldn't do any work on his packages until he got his account. As far as I know, that was the real last straw. People started looking at the current state of his packages[1], and we tried to convince him that he was not in any really good position to argue and demand to be accepted if he kept that attitude of not fixing his packages. Eray then stated that he had, at numerous times in the past, prepared packages that fixed the then-current bugs, then tried to get sponsors, found some, but they then desisted. Some people present on the channel interpreted that as "the packages weren't good enough to be sponsored". He then quite clearly stated that the bugs weren't fixed in his repository ("in addition to in the archive"), and this is a quote: "I haven't done any fixing for the last 1.5 years. Or 1 year." He even admitted he was effectively MIA. Present people then started dividing into two camps. First were the people stating quite categorically that this kind of behaviour (as welle as the time limitation) was certain to lead to a rejection. Second were those (including myself) that tried to explain to him that he would be in a much better position to make claims and demands if his packages were actually maintained (and preferably in good shape). He re-stated that he didn't want to fix his packages before he got the account to do so because he couldn't find sponsors (for various reasons including time constraints and sponsors asking him to find someone else), which gave the first camp a few more members. After rehashing the arguments once or twice again, I submitted the following proposal: if Eray fixes the four packages he's supposed to be maintaining, and puts them into an honourable shape, I'll sponsor at least one of them (even if I don't use any of them). Mark Brown said he'd do the same. We then suggested Eray started work on his packages rather than what was increasingly perceived as a watse of everyone's time (including his) on IRC. Repeatedly. At some point, Robert McQueen set some channel bit I wasn't aware of, which seemed to result in Eray not being able to talk. Anyway, the offer as it stands is this (fairly standard) sponsorhip offer: Eray makes fixed packages, makes them available on a public URL, posts this URL to debian-mentors (possibly Cc:ing me and/or Mark Brown), and we sponsor these packages if they're good. If they're good, and the bugs are fixed, we'll advertise that. If the packages are very good, we'll say that publically too, and maybe advocate him to the DAM. If they're not good, we'll also advertise that, and Eray will be in an even more awkward position to bitch and demand than he is now. Eray: this is not a way to cheat you. I have no feelings for or against you (except a slight irritation at how you behave with people on IRC, but I'll abstract that). Consider this as my very own personal test, to help me make my own mind about you and your application. My opinion will be public when I have one. I hope you'll make it a good one, I wouldn't like to waste my time. debian-mentors: You're Cc:ed because you might like to know in advance that Eray is likely to ask for a sponsor for his packages in a not too distant future. [1] http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=Eray+Ozkural Roland. PS: Rene Engelhard has been kind enough to keep a transcript of the IRC session, which I won't push to anyone except if someone denies the existence of my proposal. I can also send it to anyone asking for it. -- Roland Mas Seems to me, the only sensible thing is for people to know if they kill a whale, they've got a dead whale. -- Adam, in Good Omens (T. Pratchett and N. Gaiman) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
