Remco Blaakmeer wrote: > > Ok, let's summarize the differences between the install programs. The > Win95 installs have a simple design, are brain-dead and can present you > with nice 'Next' buttons. The Debian installer can perform complex tasks > but has a user interface that is hard to learn.
Agreed. <chuckle>, but I'm not so sure the Win95 install "wizard" could be characterized as "brain-dead" at least not in comparison to the truly brain-dead installations in Win 3.1 from 3d party suppliers especially, and sometimes even from 3d party suppliers in Win 95/NT. I guess there's a good deal of "comfort" level in those newer installers that do it all and even warn you and give you the option of replacing or keeping a newer DLL it finds already installed. (Similar in concept, I suppose, to the dependency checks Debian does?) BTW, the new Mac-based Office 98 from Microsoft offers the most simple install - there are no extensions required - all you do to install is drag the Office 98 folder from the CD to the Hard Drive and you're done!! Now *that's* the way all software *should* be installed. I'd *love* to see a fully windows-based linux that allowed installations that simple (and reliable). Just Drag and Drop - and yer done. Mac for several years has had even a smart drag and drop for stuff that goes into the System Folder: If you drag a font into the system folder, the system knows to put it into the Font folder; if you drag a Control Panel, the system knows to put it in the control panel folder, etc. I would think that if business types were to see that kind of software management in unix systems like linux, they'd likely take a much harder look at linux than they already are. > Well, Debian is not much different. It's just that first-time users get > overwhelmed (sp?) by the huge list of packages dselect shows them. That's > something you'll have to get used to until deity is released. 'deity'? now there's a new one on me. where can i find out more about it? i agree, i'm overwhelmed (sp ok) by the huge deselect list of packages. Perhaps that's why i found RedHat easier to understand: there was a simple check list: if you want such and such a function or program feature, just check the box and run, or check the "install all" box and just sit back - no dependency errors - it just does the install. When I tried selecting all in a debian 1.3.1 install, I got tons of dependency error messages - making me very unconfidant (sp?) that debian "knew" what it was doing. > Let me provide some info to help you with this. Thank You Very Much for the explanation you provided in this section. In the interests of conserving bandwidth, I'll delete/snip all but the portions I comment on, but I really do appreciate that information!! It's that kind of information that really helps a newbie up the learning curve. :) > > The "whereis" command is called "locate". It reads a database that is > updated daily if you leave the computer turned on and/or if you have > installed the anacron package. So THAT's why I was getting the message that the locate database was over 8 days old. Later I found about the updatedb command, but it didn't seem to work. Thanks for the anacron information, I'll look into that: I suspect that allows one to keep the locate/db up to date even if one's machine isn't turned on all the time (this Pentium II/233 is so new and generates more heat than my previous 486 that I don't trust it yet leaving it on 24x7. In addition, the cat would spend all her time on top of the monitor <G>) I just checked the Linux Man book I have from RedHat, and there was no reference to anacron in the index. Where is a good source of information on this? BTW, that same book, the second edition, does contain documentation for a whereis command (I thought its origins were in the unix world), but I don't recall ever finding it or being able to use it in either the Debian installation or the RedHat installation when I had them running. > > The "list" command is called "less" or "view". "view" is actually a > read-only mode of the editor "vi". If you install the vi clone called > "elvis", you'll have some interesting options. I found elvis in my Linux Man book (from RedHat), so that's covered. But thanks for the environment information below: our linux guru hasn't passed that along to me yet - but then I've not had a stable installation I can trust yet. :) > > To configure "less" to be more useful, you can set some environment > variables. If you like them, place the commands to set them in > /etc/profile and they will be set every time you log in. These are the > commands: So *that's* where I stash my environment setups. Thanks again for the tips !! > If you have installed "elvis", the "view" command can give you hex output, > using the ":display" command. When viewing a file, type ":display hex" Interesting thing about the DOS command LIST (actually a shareware add-on that's very popular) is that you can say LIST <filename> and you get an ascii display and then just do a Cntrl-H to switch the display to hex mode. Very convenient, and doesn't require restarting the program with a different set of switches. > BTW, I can send you a reference sheet containing a summary for the most > used vi commands, if you like. It's about 8 kB of text. I'd appreciate that very much. With all the editors out there, I'd really rather settle on one that I can use reliably. Our linux guru seems to prefer EMACS and that was the editor that RedHat uses once you get into X-windows - it has a GUI that's not too bad, except for the terrible default color scheme :) >You should get a > UNIX book from the local library to actually learn vi, but this will help > you a lot if you can't figure out how to exit vi. That Linux Man book I have (2nd edition) doesn't document vi, only elvis, as noted above. > Yes, that is, in my opinion, the most important point where Debian is > still behind other OSes -- _beginner_ friendlyness. Debian may be user > friendly (there is no typical user, so "user friendly" has actually no > meaning at all for any program), it is not beginner friendly. *That's* the term I mean: beginner-friendly. I think we agree 100% on this point. ;) > Yes, your position is actually typical for beginning Debian users. But, > keep on reading documentation (as you should always do, but especially > with Linux -- any Linux flavour) and one day you'll be an expert. :-) What I really need is some sort of Tutorial document. The reference documents, like the Linux Man book doesn't fit that bill. And the HOW-TO's that I've printed off and read so far assume more knowledge and comfort level than I'm at right now. > > > Tyson Dowd wrote: > > > Perhaps you could explain why you think the Mac/Win UI is better? > > > Is it just prettier, or is there some way in which it is a "better" > > > interface for doing the job? > > I think it's not only prettier, but also better to understand for those > who have never seen it before. Messages like 'click "next" to continue' > make sense to everybody, the help screens in dselect are more difficult to > understand. > > Remco Good Point!! I'd sure like to know enough about the system to be able to contribute to the effort to make the User Interface much more ergonomic. Dave -- --David E. Scott Ohio Administrative Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
