On Wednesday 18 September 2013 14:10:43 Richard Owlett wrote: > berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: > > Le 18.09.2013 14:22, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org a écrit : > >> To switch between DEs, you can do it with the usual connection > >> managers, IIRC. > >> But I personally prefer to login on TTY and then start the window > >> manager/DE of my choice. Usually, DEs have a > >> 'start-my_favorite_de' > >> command to do that. If you are tired about starting them by hand > >> everytime, you can add those lines to your ~/.bash_profile file: > >> > >> ============ > >> if [ -z "$DISPLAY" ] && [ $(tty) == /dev/tty1 ];then > >> startx > >> fi > >> ============ > >> Of course, starting from here can allow you to think about other > >> things, like using startx for tty1, gnome for tty2, kde for > >> tty3, etc. > >> It is like the usual connection managers, but without the mouse or > >> eyecandy stuff, and more lightweight. My current only problem with > >> that is that I still need to enter my login and password at start, > >> which is boring on my desktop, but I never tried to fix that > >> for now. > >> > >> Le 16.09.2013 20:57, Richard Owlett a écrit : > >>> Dan Ritter wrote: > >>>> On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 10:06:32AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote: > >>>>> As I have minimal to *NO INTERNET* access, when Debian 7.1 DVDs > >>>>> became available from vendors I purchased the 10 DVD set. I > >>>>> also > >>>>> purchased the live DVDs for Gnome, lxde, kde, and xfce. I > >>>>> did some > >>>>> test runs of each. I chose xfce for my initial Wheezy > >>>>> install based > >>>>> almost exclusively on "look and feel". It felt "comfortable" > >>>>> and > >>>>> seemed to express my somewhat vague ideas of how a GUI > >>>>> should 'act'. > >>>>> > >>>>> It was an educational experience. Each had something I'd > >>>>> like to see > >>>>> in an ideal installation. I also did more web browsing > >>>>> comparing > >>>>> "Desktop Environments" to "Windows Managers" and product > >>>>> comparisons > >>>>> within those classifications. > >>>>> > >>>>> /Questions > >>>>> 1. Given that I prefer LILO over GRUB and xfce over > >>>>> Gnome/lxde/kde, > >>>>> what GUIs should I investigate further. > >>>> > >>>> If you're happy with xfce, you shouldn't need to look further. > >>>> xfce is a fully supported, first-class environment. > >>> > >>> I don't _need_ to, but I'm involved with other projects which > >>> might > >>> benefit. Also I'm retired with lots of free time and I find > >>> the topic > >>> interesting. > >> > >> If you like XFCE, you might also look at LXDE. It's tools are less > >> linked between them than those of XFCE, and it's even more > >> lightweight. I now use some carefully chosen parts of it in > >> combination with i3, such as the primitive text editor (for > >> notes. I > >> use vim when I need a strong one) and the terminal emulator. > >> > >> Now, it seem you only know about stacking window managers. Let me > >> give you a different direction to explore: tiling window managers. > >> I will try to be as objective as possible, but remember that > >> when I > >> tried them, I simply fell in love with that paradigm, probably > >> because > >> I always was a computer tinkerer. So you are warned. > >> There are, AFAIK, no DE with some of them (well, I have heard that > >> KDE had an optional one in previous versions, but it was > >> removed. No > >> idea about the truth in those words, KDE is too heavy for my > >> computer > >> uses) but if you use lightweight DE, you can usually change the > >> window > >> manager. > >> > >> If you want the name of one on official DVDs, I think I would > >> speak > >> about i3, which is the first one I successfully tried, and the one > >> which remain on my computers, bot netbook and dekstop with 2 > >> screens. > >> It's documentation claims that it is for powerusers but... I > >> think it > >> is only to not have people come and bother them with stupid > >> questions > >> like how to edit a text file, because the doc itself is very > >> clear, > >> and the configuration of that DE is *NOT* made with a programming > >> language, which is a strong point and something which makes it > >> very > >> easy to use. In short, it uses a real configuration file, and > >> it works > >> when you install it, unlike all other TWM I have tried (but others > >> have other features which can be useful as well). > >> > >> Now, why could someone be interested in that kind of managers? > >> The difference is simply that, instead of having a stack of > >> windows > >> of different sizes that you have to manually set, each new > >> window is > >> automatically placed on the desktop and all windows are resized to > >> fill the entire space without overlapping. > >> This allows, for example, to control everything with your keyboard > >> (pretty useful if you are mostly working with text, because you > >> do not > >> have to move a hand to the mouse.), or if you have more than one > >> screen, it is really easier to be efficient with them, when it's > >> painful with classic window managers (moving a mouse from a > >> screen to > >> another just to focus another application is painful, and using > >> alt-tab is not always very fast). > >> > >> The problem is that they are usually not beautiful. I guess > >> that the > >> reason is that they are not very well known, and so, often made by > >> power users for power users, like i3 claim. > >> The beauty problem resides in the fact that there is no > >> transparent > >> windows, no rounded corners, no buttons to control the windows, > >> etc > >> (but there is still an optional title bar). This imply that heavy > >> mouse users will find them harder to use, but maybe ( I never > >> tried > >> that ) it can be fixed by using window decorators or > >> integrating them > >> into a lightweight DE such as XFCE or LXDE. > >> On the other hand, that lack of beautiful stuff also implies > >> that you > >> spend less screen space for theoretically beautiful things > >> (beauty is > >> a matter of personal tastes), and less computer resources. > >> Thanks to > >> that kind of wm, I made a netbook faster and nicer to use than > >> computer with more space and faster CPUs. At least, in my > >> opinion, of > >> course. > >> > >> The problem which come with the fact that they are made for power > >> users is proven by the fact that most of them needs to know > >> programming languages or techniques ( such as compiling ) to > >> configure > >> them. However, it is not true for i3, and it's why I have > >> started with > >> it and am still with it. I tried others, but learning a new > >> language > >> and it's API or having to recompile my softwares to simply > >> change a > >> key... I do not like that idea, even if I am myself a software > >> developer. So, i3 is very good on that point (but have less > >> features > >> than some other, and older, TWM, like templates) > >> > >> So, if you want to try them (you said you have time, right? ;) ) > >> start with an easy one like i3, and if and when you will like > >> the idea > >> behind, feel free to try more advanced ones. > >> > >> I know that i3 is on official DVDs. I discovered it like this, > >> thanks > >> to debtags. Unlike some others, it works out of the box, but > >> read the > >> doc before. > >> Here are some basic shortcuts for a first try: > >> _ starting terminal: $mod + enter > >> _ starting launcher: $mod + d ( it will need suckless tools, > >> which is > >> a recommended package. It is one of the rare recommended > >> packages that > >> I have installed, so I strongly advice you to install it, at > >> least in > >> a first time. Then you might want to replace it with another one.) > >> _ moving focus: $mod + jklm ( 'm' might be ';' if you are using a > >> qwerty keyboard. It's simply the key after 'l' ) but it'll work > >> also > >> with mouse. > >> _ closing a window: $mod + q > >> _ switching to resize mode: $mod + r > >> _ resizing windows: jklm > >> _ switching back to standard mode: esc > >> $mod is a key i3 will ask you at first start, but that you will be > >> able to change in configuration file. > >> > >> Starting a terminal is made by $mod + enter, starting an > >> application > >> launcher is made by $mod +d (if you installed suckless tools, > >> which I > >> recommend for your start. You will find them in your apt browser > >> easily, then are recommended by i3-wm package), $mod being a > >> key i3 > >> will ask you to choose at first start (but you can change it in > >> the > >> configuration file of course) > > > > And... sorry, I did not read the whole list before writing, so I > > did not noticed that I said same things than some other people. > > At least I tried to explain what are tiling window manager :s > > Repetition can be good. Sometimes the first time an idea is > presented the reader doesn't yet have experience to appreciate > the implications or subtleties. > > I am a tinkerer. It is actually my learning mode. That is > demonstrated my having spent over a year so far doing trial > installs of Debian (I've been chided for that ;). I'm retired > thus have time. I occasionally program but do *NOT* see myself as > a programmer. > > My eventual goal is a very lean Debian install using only > binaries available in the official repositories. I suspect the > result will be a half dozen metapackages and a heavily customizes > preseed file. > > I'll investigate i3.
Have a look at TDE http://www.trinitydesktop.org/ . It is the one that is best for me! Wonderfully configurable, and light on the eye - and resources. But you may hate it. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201309181648.28126.lisi.re...@gmail.com