On 2010-07-21 16:26, Amax Guan wrote: > Thank you very much, it's very helpful. I put most of the replies inline. > > > On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 8:30 AM, Gervase Markham <g...@mozilla.org > <mailto:g...@mozilla.org>> wrote: > > On 20/07/10 04:23, Amax Guan wrote: > > I've got a problem help China Construction Bank(CCB for short) > support Firefox. CCB has its own CA root, used to issue certificate to > his users, and they issued some server cert using this cert. > > > Do you know why they cannot buy a cert from a trusted CA, like every > other business (including most banks)? > > > I think basically it's because they have too much Cert to issue (One for each > user), it cost too much money, and they do not want anyone else to know how > many users they have, and their names, > including the CA.
Absolutely. It would be extremely inconvenient also- >Kai mentioned that it's OK to use a untrusted CA signed user certificate in >Firefox to sign, But they are not only using this cert in signing, they also >use the cert for two-way SSL, > and they periodically renew the cert. But if you generate a user Certificate > that's issued by a untrusted CA, there will be an alert popup. If that's really true I would call it a bug. I guess it is renewal that really is the problem? <keygen> doesn't support renewals. Few if any end-user banks certificates have their root in browsers. > The server cert I don't know why, but I guess maybe it's because they already > have this CA system, they just want to save some money and time? I mean not > every cert on their website is signed by > themselves, they have verisign certificates on most of their webpages, but on > some specific server, they use cert issued by their own CA. The server using > their own CA is in the certificate generation > process, I wonder is it related to two-way SSL or something? > > And btw, every bank in China has its own CA System, to generate user > certificate. Yes, and that is how it should be, SSL certificates is another (hopefully unrelated) topic. Anyway, Chinese banks will some day get a solution in Firefox that actually addresses consumers (rather than cryptographers), but it will take some time to get it out of the door: http://webpki.org/auth-token-4-the-cloud.html Since US banks and Government Agencies do not use certificates for consumers and citizens this is primarily a European/Asian issue and we cannot expect to get any support from Mozilla except maybe a "Good luck" or so :-) Regards Anders Rundgren > > > And they > want to put their CA Root certificate into Firefox, so that there will > be no alert popup in the certificate generate process and no security > alert when users access their website. And here comes the questions > > > Can you be more specific about the errors that people who bank with CCB > encounter in "the certificate generate process"? > > > They use keygen tag to generate the user certificate (They need to renew the > certificate periodically), and the form is submitted to a cert page with > contentType=x509/certificate or something like > that. Firefox will automatically save the certificate to where it's > corresponding key is, and after that popup an alert saying the cert is > download successfully. AND THEN, if the CA of the cert is > untrusted, Firefox will pop up another alert talking about "Cannot import the > certificate, the issuer of the cert is unknown, the cert is invalid or ...." > > > 1. Right now, we are trying to use certutil.exe in their USB-Key > driver installer to do that. However, one of my colleague seems to > have > some problem build the certutil.exe in visual studio 2005. And > sometimes, it fails to run on some machine. I tried to find a stable > version of that tool through google, but I failed. Is there any stable > version of certutil I can download, that will work on most version of > windows? Or why is it so hard to build, is there some way to make it > better? > > > I don't know the answer to this particular question. > > > Unlucky for me:( Because according to several emails I made yesterday, > this way seems to be the most doable and effective way. > > > > 2. Since the certutil.exe solution did not went very well, we > think > maybe we could embed their CA cert in our Firefox China Edition. > According to my knowledge, at least half of the population in China > are > CCB bank users, and cannot access online bank is our major problem in > China, so we think this make sense. We can make an addon to do that, > but > it occurred to us that an addon is so open, that anyone that knows > where > it is can change the cert, or do something else dangerous. So, is > there > a better way to put the cert in? Maybe through a binary XPCOM is > better? > > > The Mozilla project does not issue copies of Firefox that trust new CAs > without those CAs going through the official process, as described below. > Even when we do go through the process, people > still object - see the CNNIC case. There is absolutely no chance of any > official Firefox being released which trusts a cert belonging to another > Chinese company, or any company, without it going > through the trust checking process. Many of our users in China, as well > as those elsewhere, would not like it. > > CCB may, of course, create their own addon to add the cert (assuming > that's technically possible). But all their customers would need to install > it individually. It is no more or less dangerous to > use an addon than any other method. > > What is the current procedure for people who bank with CCB who use IE, > Safari or Chrome? Do those browsers trust the CCB certificate? > > > CCB only works in IE right now, and online banking sure is our top > priority in China now. In IE,there is a concept of trust zone, and in their > installer, they put themselves in the trust zone, and > put their CA cert in the windows Cert DB through CSP. > Btw: They are talking with MS to put their CA root in windows. > > > 3. Is it possible to put the bank's CA cert in firefox's default > cert db? So that we don't need to worry about security problems... > > > It is certainly possible. There is a process for this: > https://wiki.mozilla.org/CA:How_to_apply > However, it can take many months. > > Got it. > > > I hope that's helpful :-) > > It sure is, thank you very much for your help > > > Gerv > > > -- dev-tech-crypto mailing list dev-tech-crypto@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-tech-crypto
