Hi everyone, Just a reminder. Our meeting at the top of the hour!
https://datastax.zoom.us/j/390839037 Patrick On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 8:46 AM Joshua McKenzie <jmcken...@apache.org> wrote: > I'm a big fan of github milestones for exactly this kind of work. Just as > much process as strictly required to logically group things and align on > scope and nothing more. > > > On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 9:24 AM, <franck.de...@orange.com> wrote: > > > Hi all, sorry for the delay we were busy releasing V1 of CassKop which > > happened this week: https://github.com/Orange-OpenSource/casskop > > > > Now we would like to open the discussions about feature merging and I > > would like to follow Joshua’s proposition: open issues on cass-operator. > > > > As I said, we discuss first and if we find a way forward then we do it! > > > > We will open the issues next week and move forward. > > > > We can discuss them during the next SIG calls from thursday > > > > Franck > > > > On 6 Oct 2020, at 08:02, Ben Bromhead <b...@instaclustr.com<mailto:ben@ > > instaclustr.com>> wrote: > > > > Thanks Frank and Christopher. > > > > Sounds like we have a good path to consolidate around! > > > > On Sat, Oct 3, 2020 at 11:12 AM Joshua McKenzie <jmcken...@apache.org > > <mailto:jmcken...@apache.org>> wrote: > > > > how to best merge Casskop's features in Cass-operator. > > > > What if we create issues on the gh repo here > > https://github.com/datastax/cass-operator/issues, create a milestone out > > of > > that, and have engineers rally on it to get things merged? We have a few > > engineers focused on k8s ecosystem for Cassandra from the DataStax side > > who'd be happy to collaborate with you folks to get these things in. > > > > On Fri, Oct 02, 2020 at 11:34 AM, <franck.de...@orange.com<mailto:franck > . > > de...@orange.com>> wrote: > > > > An update on Orange's point of view following the recent emails: > > > > If we were a newly interested party in running C* in K8s, we would use > > Cass-operator as it comes from Datastax. > > > > The logic would then be that the community embraces it and thanks > Datastax > > for offering it! > > > > So, on Orange side, we propose to discuss with Datastax how to best merge > > Casskop's features in Cass-operator. These features are: > > - nodes labelling to map any internal architecture (including network > > specific labels to muti-dc setup) > > - volumes & sidecars management (possibly linked to PodTemplateSpec) > > - backup & restore (we ruled out velero and can share why we went with > > Instaclustr but Medusa could work too) > > - kubectl plugin integration (quite useful on the ops side without an > > admin UI) > > - multiCassKop evolution to drive multiple cass-operators instead of > > multiple casskops (this could remain Orange internal if too specific) > > > > We could decide at the end of these discussions the best way forward. > > Orange could make PRs on cass-operator, but only if we agree we want the > > functionalities :) > > > > If we can sort it out we could end up with a pretty neat operator. > > > > We share a common architecture (operator-sdk), start to know each other > > with all these meetings so it should be possible if we want to! > > > > Would that be ok for the community and Datastax? > > > > On 2 Oct 2020, at 14:52, Joshua McKenzie <jmcken...@apache.org<mailto: > > jmcken...@apache.org>> wrote: > > > > What are next steps here? > > > > Maybe we collectively put a table together w/the 2 operators and a list > of > > features to compare and contrast? Enumerate the frameworks / dependencies > > they have to help form a point of view about the strengths and weaknesses > > of each option? > > > > On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 10:22 PM, Christopher Bradford <bradfordcp@gmail. > > com > > > > wrote: > > > > Hello Dev list, > > > > I'm Chris Bradford a Product Manager at DataStax working with the > > cass-operator team. For background, we started down the path of > developing > > an operator internally to power our C*aaS platform, Astra. Care was taken > > from day 1 to keep anything specific to this product at a layer above > > cass-operator so it could solely focus on the task of operating Cassandra > > clusters. With that being said, every single cluster on Astra is > > provisioned and operated by cass-operator. The value of an advanced > > operator to Cassandra users is tremendous so we decided to open source > the > > project (and associated components) with the goal of building a > community. > > It absolutely makes sense to offer this project and codebase up for > > donation as a standard / baseline for running C* on Kubernetes. > > > > Below you will find a collection of cass-operator features, > > differentiators, and roadmap / inflight initiatives. Table-stakes > Must-have > > functionality for a C* operator > > > > - > > > > Datacenter provisioning > > - > > > > Schedule all pods > > - > > > > Bootstrap nodes in the appropriate order > > - > > > > Seeds > > - > > > > Across racks > > - > > > > etc. > > - > > > > Uniform configuration > > - > > > > Scale-up > > - > > > > Add new nodes in a balanced manner across rack > > - > > > > Scale-down > > - > > > > Remove nodes one at a time across racks > > - > > > > Node recovery > > - > > > > Restart process > > - > > > > Reschedule instance (IE replace node) > > - Replace instance > > - > > > > Specific workflows for seed node replacements > > - > > > > Multi-DC / Multi-Rack > > - > > > > Multi-Region / Multi-K8s Cluster > > - > > > > Note this requires support at a networking layer for pod to pod IP > > connectivity. This may be accomplished within the cluster with CNIs like > > Cilium or externally via traditional networking tools. > > > > Differentiators > > > > - > > > > OSS Ecosystem / Components > > - > > > > Cass Config Builder - OSS project extracted from DataStax OpsCenter Life > > Cycle Manager to provide automated configuration file rendering > > - > > > > Cass Config Definitions - definitions files for cass-config-builder, > > defines all configuration files, their parameters, and templates > > - > > > > Management API for Apache Cassandra (MAAC) > > - > > > > Metrics Collector for Apache Cassandra (MCAC) > > - > > > > Reference Prometheus Operator CRDs > > - > > > > ServiceMonitor > > - > > > > Instance > > - > > > > Reference Grafana Operator CRDs > > - > > > > Instance > > - > > > > Dashboards > > - > > > > Datasource > > - > > > > PodTemplateSpec > > - > > > > Customization of existing pods including support for adding containers, > > volumes, etc > > - > > > > Advanced Networking > > - > > > > Node Port > > - > > > > Host Network > > - > > > > Simple security > > - > > > > Management API mTLS support > > - > > > > Automated generation of keystore and truststore for internode and client > > to node TLS > > - > > > > Automated superuser account configuration > > - > > > > The default superuser (cassandra/cassandra) is disabled and never > > available to clients > > - > > > > Cluster administration account may be automatically (or provided) with > > values stored in a k8s secret > > - > > > > Automatic application of NetworkTopologyStrategy with appropriate RF for > > system keyspaces > > - > > > > Validating webhook > > - > > > > Invalid changes are rejected with a helpful message > > - > > > > Rolling cluster updates > > - > > > > Change in binary (C* upgrade) > > - > > > > Change in configuration > > - > > > > Canary deployments - single rack application of changes for validation > > before broader deployment > > - > > > > Rolling restart > > - > > > > Platform Integration / Testing / Certification > > - > > > > Red Hat Openshift compatible and certified > > - > > > > Secure, Universal Base Image (UBI) foundation images with security > > scanning performed by Red Hat > > - > > > > cass-operator > > - > > > > cass-config-builder > > - > > > > apache-cassandra w/ MCAC and MAAC > > - > > > > Integration with Red Hat certification pipeline / marketplace > > - > > > > Presence in Red Hat Operator Hub built into OpenShift interface > > - > > > > VMware Tanzu Kubernetes Grid Integrated Edition compatible and certified > > - > > > > Security scanning for images performed by VMware > > - > > > > Amazon EKS > > - > > > > Google GKE > > - > > > > Azure AKS > > - > > > > Documentation / Reference Implementations > > - > > > > Cloud storage classes > > - > > > > Ingress solutions > > - > > > > Sample connection validation application with reference implementations > of > > Java Driver client connection parameters > > - > > > > Cluster-level Stop / Resume - stop all running instances while keeping > > persistent storage. Allows for scaling compute down to zero. Bringing the > > cluster back up follows expected startup procedures > > > > Road Map / Inflight > > > > 1. > > > > Repair > > 1. > > > > Reaper integration > > 2. > > > > Backups > > 1. > > > > Velero integration > > 2. Medusa integration > > 3. > > > > Advanced Networking via sidecar > > 1. > > > > Combination of proxy sidecars (a la Envoy) to allow for persistent IP > > addresses despite Kubernetes' best efforts to shuffle them. > > 4. > > > > Single pod canary deployments > > 5. > > > > Platform Certification > > 1. VMware Project Pacific > > > > 2. > > > > Rancher Kubernetes Engine (K3s) > > 6. > > > > Documentation > > 1. > > > > Multi-region > > 2. > > > > Multi-cloud > > 3. > > > > Additional ingress providers > > 1. Voyager > > 2. HAProxy > > 3. Gloo > > 4. Ambassdor > > 5. Envoy > > 6. NGINX Ingress Controller > > 4. > > > > Additional storage class references > > 1. > > > > OpenEBS > > 7. > > > > Cassandra Enhancements > > 1. > > > > [#CASSANDRA-15823] Support for networking via identity instead of IP > > - ASF JIRA <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-15823> > > > > If there are further questions about the project, codebase, architecture, > > etc. the team would be happy to dive in to the details and discuss more. > > > > Cheers, > > ~Chris > > > > Christopher Bradford > > > > On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 12:19 PM Patrick McFadin <pmcfa...@gmail.com > > <mailto:pmcfa...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > I can agree with that Ben. Franck did a good job of outlining CassKop. > > Somebody from the cass-operator will be posting something similar and we > > can keep it on the mailing list. > > > > Patrick > > > > On Sun, Sep 27, 2020 at 2:16 PM Ben Bromhead <b...@instaclustr.com > <mailto: > > b...@instaclustr.com>> wrote: > > > > Thanks Frank and Stefan. > > > > @Patrick great suggestion and worthwhile getting everything on the table. > > > > One minor change I would advocate for. The SIG has been great to iterate > > and interact on the details, but I really think this conversation given > > > > the > > > > nature of the content needs to be on the mailing list. The mailing list > > > > is > > > > really our system of record and the most accessible. > > > > It gives folk time to think and digest, it's asynchronous, easily > > searchable and let's be honest, the majority of stakeholders in this are > > not US based, so the timing issue then goes away and makes it easier for > > people to participate in. I feel like we've made a lot more progress by > > simply having this discussion here. > > > > So instead of a presentation, maybe just an email to the ML addressing > > > > the > > > > headings that Patrick identified? > > > > On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 7:55 AM Stefan Miklosovic < stefan.miklosovic@ > > instaclustr.com<http://instaclustr.com>> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > Patrick's suggestion seems good to me. > > > > I won't go into specifics here as I need to genuinely prepare for this. > It > > is quite hard to dig deep into the solutions of others and bring some > > constructive criticism because it takes a lot of time to study it and > > everybody has some "why's" behind it. > > > > To summarize my goals and concerns: > > > > 1) We should be as much "Kubernetes operator idiomatic" as possible. > > Industry standards, no custom brain-child of this or that group because > > they think it is just cool or they just didn't know any better. I do NOT > > say it is like that right now, I just want to be ruthless here as much as > > possible when it comes to functionality and why it is done like that. It > is > > awesome that we have already something latest (thanks to John) and it > > adheres to the latest releases. I personally had a hard time to keep up > > with all the releases, once I finished something and I aligned it, after > a > > week or two there was already another one where things were different, it > > is a very fast-moving space and I hope that by time we develop something > it > > will not be obsolete. > > > > 2) It may be easier said than done but it is guaranteed that people get > > emotional, it's their precious etc, so please let's go into this with > good > > intentions, not trying to push one solution over the other just because > > they would like to see it there ... I will have an equally hard time to > > comply with this point. My plan is to explain what is _wrong_ with our > > solution. Where we made mistakes and what should be done differently but > it > > is "too late" etc. It is quite hard to describe your work and all effort > > in > > this light but without telling what is wrong we can not decide what is > > good > > imho. > > > > 3) We should put something together fast enough so we can call it a > > release. We can always iterate on it for eternity. But the foundations > need > > to be there. Here I want to say that I especially like what John did. I > > looked through these specs and it was obvious it has been written with > care > > and attention. It looked _solid_. I am not sure how hard it is to put all > > other things on top of that, I truly do not, and here I think we would > have > > to reinvent that wheel if we want to proceed because I can not imagine > > what > > it would be to retrofit e.g. CassKop on top of John specs, it is just > like > > putting round pegs into the square holes, maybe some chunks would be > > reused > > easily but otherwise I worry we will be just on square one. > > > > One specific feeling I have as I read this is that even if there is the > > will to create the fourth operator, the respective parties will not be > able > > to drop their own repository. The whole point behind this effort, to me, > > is > > to have a solid, community driven, stable, modern and feature complete > > operator people are truly using. I can see that once this is real, we > will > > _really_ sunset our operator, redirecting people to the new operator on > > main readme doc etc, we truly mean it. Sure, if somebody comes and bug > fix > > will be needed, we will fix it, but the whole point of doing this is to > > stop using what we have currently, over time, otherwise we are just > > splitting this space even more. If CassKop is not sure if they will use > it > > because they do not know if that operator will be "enough" for them, > > aren't > > we just doing it wrong? If I exaggerate, they should be fine with > deleting > > the whole repository and using just this Cassandra one we are going to > > make > > otherwise I don't see the point to work on this ... > > > > On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 at 20:45, Joshua McKenzie <jmcken...@apache.org > > <mailto:jmcken...@apache.org>> wrote: > > > > - choose cass-operator: it is not on offer right now so let’s see if > > > > it > > > > does > > > > We should all talk a lot more, but this is 100% a mistake - I take > > > > the > > > > blame for that. The intention has long been to offer cass-operator > > > > for > > > > donation but it slipped through the cracks and your email yesterday > > > > made > > > > me > > > > double-take. > > > > We have since resolved this misalignment. DataStax would be happy to > > > > donate > > > > any and all of cass-operator to the ASF and C* project if it's what > > > > we > > > > all > > > > agree best serves our collective Cassandra users. I'm also cognizant > > > > that > > > > an immense amount of effort has gone into CassKop and we seem to have > > something of an embarrassment of riches. > > > > I'm given to understand (haven't dug in personally) that the two > > > > operators > > > > express pretty different opinions when it comes to frameworks, > > > > designs, > > > > supported versions, etc. I think a discrete enumeration of the > > > > feature > > > > set > > > > and "identities" of both could really help navigate this conversation > > > > going > > > > forward. > > > > Also - thanks for that context Franck. It's always helpful to know > > > > where > > > > other people are coming from when we're all working together towards > > > > a > > > > common goal. > > > > On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 12:23 PM, <franck.de...@orange.com<mailto:franck > . > > de...@orange.com>> wrote: > > > > I can share Orange’s view of the situation, sorry it is a long > > > > story! > > > > We started CassKop at the end of 2018 after betting on K8S which > > > > was > > > > not > > > > so simple as far as C* was concerned. Lack of support for local > > > > storage, > > > > IPs that change all the time, different network plugins to try to > > > > implement > > > > a non standard K8s way of having nodes see each other from > > > > different > > > > dcs… > > > > We hesitated with Mesos but could not have both and K8S was already > > tracting so much you could not not choose it. > > > > Anyway, we looked around and did not see anyone with such > > > > requirements > > > > so > > > > we said: why not try it ourselves but on github so that we may give > > > > it > > > > back > > > > to the community. We have used C* for quite a few years with great > > > > success > > > > on production with massive load and perfect availability. We love > > > > C* > > > > @ > > > > Orange :) Thanks! > > > > So we started writing support for mono-dc cluster (CassKop) and > > > > added > > > > the > > > > multi dc support with MultiCassKop which is another operator > > > > included > > > > in > > > > the CassKop repo. For more details we tried to document our designs > > > > as > > > > much > > > > as possible here: > > > > https://orange-opensource.github.io/casskop/docs/ > > > > 1_concepts/3_design_principes#multi-site-management > > > > In the middle of last year we had some talks with Datastax about > > > > working > > > > together around their new management sidecar. Their position on > > > > open > > > > source > > > > was not clear at that time so we said please come back when you > > > > have > > > > decided to go open source with it. Which they did in the beginning > > > > of > > > > this > > > > year. But at that time I guess work had started on cass-operator so > > > > we > > > > kept > > > > our separate ways. > > > > Since the beginning of the years, we have been working with our OPS > > > > team > > > > to have it in production. It is not simple as the team has to learn > > > > K8S and > > > > trust a newborn operator. This takes time especially as our > > > > internal > > > > cluster has been tweaked for multi-tenancy with obscure options > > > > being > > > > set > > > > by our K8s team… > > > > We also developed with Instaclustr the Backup & Restore > > > > functionnality > > > > (we > > > > have new CRDs (Custom Resource Definition) for backup and restore > > > > and a > > > > reconcile loop that calls out Instaclustr sidecar for these > > > > operations). We > > > > now support multiple backups in parallel and can write to s3/ > > > > google > > > > or > > > > azur (but Stefan could give more details here if needed) > > > > During the SIG calls we mentioned our desire to donate CassKop once > > > > it > > > > satisfies our basics requirements (v1 coming just now but I said it > > > > too > > > > many times already) I am actually not sure Datastax mentioned their > > > > desire > > > > to donate cass-operator but we decided to compare the designs and > > > > the > > > > functionalities based on respective CRDs. The CRD is the interface > > > > with the > > > > user as it is where you describe the cluster that you want to have. > > > > These > > > > talks were very interesting and we found out that the CassKop team > > > > had > > > > made > > > > good choices most of the time but was may be too open. Indeed our > > > > intention > > > > was to give all the possibilities for our OPS team to work. This > > > > includes : > > > > - very open topology definition using any configuration of labels > > > > to > > > > map > > > > dcs / racks and nodes to labels on clusters (we have labels on dcs > > > > / > > > > rooms > > > > / rows and server racks so we can map C* racks to storage or > > > > network > > > > arrays > > > > internaly) > > - possibility to have multiple C* nodes on a single K8S host > > > > (because > > > > internal clouds are not really clouds, they have limited resources) > > - custom C* image selection, > > - custom bootstrap script that lets you configure C* as you want > > > > using > > > > ConfigMaps, > > - the ability to mount different volumes wherever they wanted, > > - the possibility to run any number of sidecars alongside C* for > > > > custom > > > > probes in our case > > > > This makes CassKop quite powerful and flexible. > > We made sure that all those options are not enabled by default so > > > > one > > > > can > > > > just pop a simple 3 node cluster quickly > > > > On the other hand cass-operator had an interesting way of > > > > configuring > > > > C* > > > > just inside the CRD using cass-config. This is simple and elegant > > > > so > > > > we are > > > > implementing it as well for the support of C* 4 > > > > Now for the future, there are 3 choices in my opinion: > > - start from scratch (or John’s repo) by cherry picking bits from > > > > all > > > > operators. This is possible but will take some time / effort to > > > > have > > > > something usable. And then it will be compared to cass-operator and > > CassKop. I don’t see Orange contributing too much here as we > > > > believe > > > > CassKop to be a much better starting point > > - choose cass-operator: it is not on offer right now so let’s see > > > > if > > > > it > > > > does. I think Orange could contribute some bits inherited from > > > > CassKop > > > > if > > > > it is agreed by the community. Not sure it would be enough for us > > > > to > > > > use > > > > it. > > - choose CassKop: we would be delighted to donate it and contribute > > > > with > > > > some committers (including the original author who now works for > > > > AWS). > > > > It > > > > would then become the community operator but there would be > > > > cass-operator > > > > alongside probably. But Cass-operator is made to make it easier for > > Datastax to manage customer clusters by imposing some > > > > configuration. > > > > It > > > > make sense for their needs, so may be 2 operators. We don’t know > > > > how > > > > backup/restore will be handled here with medusa being adapted to > > > > K8s > > > > Sorry again for being long but 2 years of work deserve some lines > > > > of > > > > text > > > > :) > > > > I just saw your message Patrick but this was written already so we > > > > gain a > > > > week. > > > > Franck > > > > On 24 Sep 2020, at 10:08, Benjamin Lerer < > > > > benjamin.le...@datastax.com > > > > <mailto:benjamin.le...@datastax.com>> wrote: > > > > I realise there are meeting logs, but getting a wider discourse > > > > with > > > > non-stakeholder input might help to build a community consensus? It > > > > doesn't > > > > seem like it can hurt at this point, anyway. > > > > +1 > > > > On Wed, Sep 23, 2020 at 9:21 PM Benedict Elliott Smith > > > > <benedict@apache. > > > > org<mailto:bened...@apache.org>> wrote: > > > > Perhaps it helps to widen the field of discussion to the dev list? > > > > It might help if each of the stakeholder organisations state their > > > > view on > > > > the situation, including why they would or would not support a > > > > given > > > > approach/operator, and what (preferably specific) circumstances > > > > might > > > > lead > > > > them to change their mind? > > > > I realise there are meeting logs, but getting a wider discourse > > > > with > > > > non-stakeholder input might help to build a community consensus? It > > > > doesn't > > > > seem like it can hurt at this point, anyway. > > > > On 23/09/2020, 17:13, "John Sanda" <john.sa...@gmail.com<mailto: > > > > john. > > > > sa...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > I want to point out that pretty much everything being discussed in > > > > this > > > > thread has been discussed at length during the SIG meetings. I > > > > think > > > > it is > > > > worth noting because we are pretty much still have the same > > > > conversation. > > > > On Wed, Sep 23, 2020 at 12:03 PM Benedict Elliott Smith < > > > > benedict@apache. > > > > org<mailto:bened...@apache.org>> wrote: > > > > I don't think there's anything about a code drop that's not "The > > > > Apache > > > > Way" > > > > If there's a consensus (or even strong majority) amongst invested > > > > parties, > > > > I don't see why we could not adopt an operator directly into the > > > > project. > > > > It's possible a green field approach might lead to fewer hard > > > > feelings, as > > > > everyone is in the same boat. Perhaps all operators are also > > > > suboptimal > > > > and > > could be improved with a rewrite? But I think coordinating a lot of > > different entities around an empty codebase is particularly > > > > challenging. I > > > > actually think it could be better for cohesion and collaboration to > > > > have a > > > > suboptimal but substantive starting point. > > > > On 23/09/2020, 16:11, "Stefan Miklosovic" < stefan.miklosovic@ > > instaclustr.com<mailto:stefan.mikloso...@instaclustr.com>> wrote: > > > > I think that from Instaclustr it was stated quite clearly multiple times > > that we are "fine to throw it away" if there is something > > > > better > > > > and more wide-spread.Indeed, we have invested a lot of time in the > > operator but it was not useless at all, we gained a lot of quite > > > > unique > > > > knowledge how to put all pieces together. However, I think that this > space > > is going to be quite fragmented and "balkanized", which > > > > is > > > > not always a bad thing, but in a quite narrow area as Kubernetes > > > > operator > > > > is, I just do not see how 4 operators are going to be beneficial > > > > for > > > > ordinary people ("official" from community, ours, Datastax one and > > > > CassKop > > > > (without any significant order)). Sure, innovation and healthy > > > > competition > > > > is important but to what extent ... > > One can start a Cassandra cluster on Kubernetes just so many times > > differently and nobody really likes a vendor lock-in. People > > > > wanting > > > > to run a cluster on K8S realise that there are three operators, > > > > each > > > > backed by a private business entity, and the community operator is > > > > not > > > > there ... Huh, interesting ... One may even start to question what > > > > is > > > > wrong with these folks that it takes three companies to build their own > > solution. > > > > Having said that, to my perception, Cassandra community just does > > > > not > > > > have enough engineers nor contributors to keep 4 operators alive at the > > same time (I wish I was wrong) so the idea of selecting the > > > > best > > > > one or to merge obvious things and approaches together is > > > > understandable, > > > > even if it meant we eventually sunset ours. In addition, nobody > > > > from > > > > big > > > > players is going to contribute to the code > > base of the other one, for obvious reasons, so channeling and > > > > directing > > > > this effort into something common for a community seems to be the only > > reasonable way of cooperation. > > > > It is quite hard to bootstrap this if the donation of the code in > > > > big > > > > chunks / whole repo is out of question as it is not the "Apache > > > > way" > > > > (there was some thread running here about this in more depth a > > > > while > > > > ago) and we basically need to start from scratch which is quite > > demotivating, we are just inventing the wheel and nobody is up to > > > > it. > > > > It is like people are waiting for that to happen so they can jump > > > > in > > > > "once it is the thing" but it will never materialise or at least > > > > the > > > > hurdle to kick it off is unnecessarily high. Nobody is going to > > > > invest > > > > in this heavily if there is already a working operator from > > > > companies > > > > mentioned above. As I understood it, one reason of not choosing the way > of > > donating it all is that "the learning and community building should > happen > > in organic manner and we just can not accept the > > > > donation", > > > > but is not it true that it is easier to build a community around > something > > which is already there rather than trying to build > > > > it > > > > around an idea which is quite hard to dedicate to? > > > > On Wed, 23 Sep 2020 at 15:28, Joshua McKenzie < > > > > jmcken...@apache.org<mailto:jmcken...@apache.org> > > > > <mailto:jmcken...@apache.org>> wrote: > > > > I think there's significant value to the community in trying to coalesce > > on a single approach, > > I agree. Unfortunately in this case, the parties with a vested > > > > interest > > > > and > > written operators came to the table and couldn't agree to coalesce on a > > single approach. John Sanda attempted to start an initiative to > > > > write a > > > > best-of-breed combining choice parts of each operator, but that > > > > effort > > > > did > > > > not gain traction. > > > > Which is where my hypothesis comes from that if there were a clear > > "better > > fit" operator to start from we wouldn't be in a deadlock; the > > > > correct > > > > choice would be obvious. Reasonably so, every engineer that's > > > > written > > > > something is going to want that something to be used and not thrown away > > in > > favor of another something without strong evidence as to why that's the > > better choice. > > > > As far as I know, nobody has made a clear case as to a more > > > > compelling > > > > place to start in terms of an operator donation the project then > > collaborates on. There's no mass adoption evidence nor feature > > > > enumeration > > > > that I know of for any of the approaches anyone's taken, so the > > discussions > > remain stalled. > > > > On Wed, Sep 23, 2020 at 7:18 AM, Benedict Elliott Smith < > > > > benedict@apache. > > > > org<mailto:bened...@apache.org> wrote: > > > > I think there's significant value to the community in trying to coalesce > > on a single approach, earlier than later. This is an opportunity to > expand > > the number of active organisations involved directly in the Apache > > Cassandra project, as well as to more quickly expand the project's > > functionality into an area we consider urgent and important. I think it > > would be a real shame to waste this opportunity. No doubt it will be > hard, > > as organisations have certain built-in investments in their own > > approaches. > > > > I haven't participated in these calls as I do not consider myself to have > > the relevant experience and expertise, and have other focuses on the > > project. I just wanted to voice a vote in favour of trying to bring > > > > the > > > > different organisations together on a single approach if possible. Is > > there > > anything the project can do to help this happen? > > > > On 23/09/2020, 03:04, "Ben Bromhead" <b...@instaclustr.com<mailto:ben@ > > instaclustr.com><mailto: > > > > ben@ > > > > instaclustr.com<http://instaclustr.com>>> wrote: > > > > I think there is certainly an appetite to donate and standardise on a > > given operator (as mentioned in this thread). > > > > I personally found the SIG hard to participate in due to time zones > > > > and > > > > the synchronous nature of it. > > > > So while it was a great forum to dive into certain details for a subset > of > > participants and a worthwhile endeavour, I wouldn't paint it as an > > accurate > > reflection of community intent. > > > > I don't think that any participants want to continue down the path of > > "let > > a thousand flowers bloom". That's why we are looking towards CasKop > > > > (as > > > > well as a number of technical reasons). > > > > Some of the recorded meetings and outputs can also be found if you are > > interested in some primary sources > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CASSANDRA/ > > Cassandra+Kubernetes+Operator+SIG > > . > > > > From what I understand second-hand from talking to people on the SIG > > calls, > > > > there was a general inability to agree on an existing operator as a > > starting point and not much engagement on taking best of breed from the > > various to combine them. Seems to leave us in the "let a thousand flowers > > bloom" stage of letting operators grow in the ecosystem and seeing which > > ones meet the needs of end users before talking about adopting one into > the > > foundation. > > > > Great to hear that you folks are joining forces though! Bodes well for C* > > users that are wanting to run things on k8s. > > > > On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 4:26 AM, Ben Bromhead < > > > > b...@instaclustr.com<mailto:b...@instaclustr.com> > > > > <mailto:b...@instaclustr.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > For what it's worth, a quick update from me: > > > > CassKop now has at least two organisations working on it > > > > substantially > > > > (Orange and Instaclustr) as well as the numerous other > > > > contributors. > > > > Internally we will also start pointing others towards CasKop once a few > > things get merged. While we are not yet sunsetting our operator yet, it > > > > is > > > > certainly looking that way. > > > > I'd love to see the community adopt it as a starting point for working > > towards whatever level of functionality is desired. > > > > Cheers > > > > Ben > > > > On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 2:37 PM John Sanda < > > john.sa...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 5:27 PM Josh McKenzie < > > > > jmcken...@apache.org > > > > wrote: > > > > There's basically 1 java driver in the C* ecosystem. We have 3? 4? or > > > > more > > > > operators in the ecosystem. Has one of them hit a clear > > > > supermajority > > > > of > > > > adoption that makes it the de facto default and makes sense to pull it > > > > into > > > > the project? > > > > We as a project community were pretty slow to move on building a PoV > > > > around > > > > kubernetes so we find ourselves in a situation with a bunch of contenders > > for inclusion in the project. It's not clear to me what heuristics we'd > > > > use > > > > to gauge which one would be the best fit for inclusion outside letting > > community adoption speak. > > > > --- > > Josh McKenzie > > > > We actually talked a good bit on the SIG call earlier today about > > heuristics. We need to document what functionality an operator should > > include at level 0, level 1, etc. We did discuss this a good bit during > > some of the initial SIG meetings, but I guess it wasn't really a focal > > point at the time. I think we should also provide references to existing > > operator projects and possibly other related projects. This would benefit > > both community users as well as people working on these projects. > > > > - John > > > > -- > > > > Ben Bromhead > > > > Instaclustr | www.instaclustr.com | @instaclustr > > <http://twitter.com/instaclustr> | (650) 284 9692 > > > > -- > > > > Ben Bromhead > > > > Instaclustr | www.instaclustr.com | @instaclustr > > <http://twitter.com/instaclustr> | (650) 284 9692 > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > To > > > > unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@cassandra.apache.org For additional > > commands, e-mail: dev-h...@cassandra.apache.org > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > To > > > > unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@cassandra.apache.org For > > > > additional > > > > commands, e-mail: dev-h...@cassandra.apache.org > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > To > > > > unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@cassandra.apache.org For > > > > additional > > > > commands, e-mail: dev-h...@cassandra.apache.org > > > > -- > > > > - John > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > To > > > > unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@cassandra.apache.org For > > > > additional > > > > commands, e-mail: dev-h...@cassandra.apache.org > > > > > _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations > > confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre > > > > diffuses, > > > > exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message > > > > par > > > > erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi > > > > que > > > > les > > > > pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles > > > > d'alteration, > > > > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, > > > > deforme ou > > > > falsifie. Merci. > > > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or > > > > privileged > > > > information that may be protected by law; they should not be > > > > distributed, > > > > used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this > > > > email > > > > in > > > > error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its > > attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for > > > > messages > > > > that have been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To > > unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@cassandra.apache.org<mailto: > > dev-unsubscr...@cassandra.apache.org> For additional commands, e-mail: > > dev-h...@cassandra.apache.org<mailto:dev-h...@cassandra.apache.org> > > > > -- > > > > Ben Bromhead > > > > Instaclustr | www.instaclustr.com<http://www.instaclustr.com> | > > @instaclustr > > <http://twitter.com/instaclustr> | (650) 284 9692 > > > > > _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations > > confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, > > exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par > > erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les > > pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles > d'alteration, > > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme > ou > > falsifie. Merci. > > > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged > > information that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, > > used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in > > error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its > > attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages > > that have been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. > > > > -- > > > > Ben Bromhead > > > > Instaclustr | www.instaclustr.com<http://www.instaclustr.com> | > > @instaclustr > > <http://twitter.com/instaclustr> | (650) 284 9692 > > > > > _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations > > confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, > > exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par > > erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les > > pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles > d'alteration, > > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme > ou > > falsifie. Merci. > > > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged > > information that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, > > used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in > > error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its > > attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages > > that have been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. > > >
