Hi Pierre No offense taken. I would like to hear from Julien on this issue so we can move it forward.
Gavin On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 4:05 PM, Pierre Smits <pierre.sm...@gmail.com> wrote: > Gavin, > > Please don't see my posting as an attack on anyone participating in the > branch. It is just a reflection of my observation infused with a viewpoint. > I appreciate what has been done. > > And, how to do skin variants has popped up before in relation to ecommerce. > See various mail threads in devML. So, the effort applied and the result > achieved validate the added goal of the Bootstrap PoC. > > Best regards, > > Pierre Smits > > *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>* > Services & Solutions for Cloud- > Based Manufacturing, Professional > Services and Retail & Trade > http://www.orrtiz.com > > On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 3:54 PM, Gavin Mabie <kwikst...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hi Pierre > > > > > > > Bootstrap Sunrise is, in effect, a beautification effort on top of > > > Bootstrap Basic. Where the Bootstrap dev branch started out as a kind > of > > > Proof of Concept branch (proving that OFBiz could be leveraged to use > the > > > Bootstrap web framework, and investigating/implementing what was > required > > > to have). > > > > > > When I initially included the "Bootstrap Tomahawk" theme, the purpose > was > > solely to indicate how easy it would be to develop skins for a theme. > > Naturally some might think that it is a "beautification", but that is a > > matter of opinion. In the real world you may find clients who do not > agree > > with this notion. It's for this reason that most designers first > present a > > vanilla look-and-feel so that clients can bring their preferences into > the > > mix. As a community our goal should be to present Ofbiz as visually > > appealing as possible without being too prescriptive in terms of > > look-and-feel. Most projects do this by using generic (if not bland) > > look-and-feel's for their apps. Hence "Basic". BTW Bootstrap is not a > web > > framework! > > > > With the effort spent on the additional skin (started as bootstrapped > > > Tomahawk variant, now dubbed Sunrise), we went beyond that initial > goal. > > > > > > > > Going beyond the initial goal is perhaps at the crux of it. I personally > > think it is too early to do this. There are other, higher priority > issues > > that need addressing before we get sexy on this. For one, we haven't > dealt > > with responsiveness sufficiently. While we have demonstrated that the > > Ofbiz framework is flexible enough to handle Bootstrap and perhaps any > > other JavaScript framework, we have yet to address HTML 5 issues. > > > > Yet introducing another set of difficulties, being the effect of changes > in > > > the ftl files for the one on the other. > > > > > > I don't agree with the idea that these are difficulties. It is a simple > > solution to the problem arising from treating "Sunrise" as a theme. > Also, > > it acknowledges the work done by Julien in line with the "People before > > Code" mantra. > > > > That is why I created https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6467, > > and > > > provided patches for the two disentangled themes in > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6362 > > > > > > This, I believe, is a complication. There is nothing complicated about > the > > recommendation to fork header.ftl and appbar.ftl. In fact I would like > to > > see this kind of practice promoted in Ofbiz as it allows designers more > > options. > > > > Regards > > > > Gavin > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 3:09 PM, Pierre Smits <pierre.sm...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > Bootstrap Sunrise is, in effect, a beautification effort on top of > > > Bootstrap Basic. Where the Bootstrap dev branch started out as a kind > of > > > Proof of Concept branch (proving that OFBiz could be leveraged to use > the > > > Bootstrap web framework, and investigating/implementing what was > required > > > to have). > > > > > > With the effort spent on the additional skin (started as bootstrapped > > > Tomahawk variant, now dubbed Sunrise), we went beyond that initial > goal. > > > Yet introducing another set of difficulties, being the effect of > changes > > in > > > the ftl files for the one on the other. > > > > > > That is why I created https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6467 > , > > > and > > > provided patches for the two disentangled themes in > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6362 > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Pierre Smits > > > > > > *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>* > > > Services & Solutions for Cloud- > > > Based Manufacturing, Professional > > > Services and Retail & Trade > > > http://www.orrtiz.com > > > > > > On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 2:42 PM, Gavin Mabie <kwikst...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not review anything but from your explanation having > > > > > separated/specific header.ftl & appbar.ftl files in "Sunrise" makes > > > sense > > > > > to me (since it's a "skin") > > > > > BTW I understand that <<Sunrise is a "skin">> because it's mostly a > > > copy > > > > > of basic, right? > > > > > > > > > > > > That's right. If Julien is okay with it, I can move his commits to > new > > > > folder "sunrise" under bootstrap/includes. The "sunrise" folder can > > > serve > > > > as placeholder for templates that deviate from the "basic" templates. > > > > > > > > I agree with Pierre that we should try to get this into the trunk > > sooner > > > > rather then later because of the massive refactoring work. New > issues > > > will > > > > definitely emerge once in the trunk, but we can deal with that there. > > > > > > > > Gavin > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 12:58 PM, Jacques Le Roux < > > > > jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Le 24/06/2015 11:47, Gavin Mabie a écrit : > > > > > > > > > >> Four issues: > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> 1. The Bootstrap Basic and "Bootstrap Sunrise" is in fact just > > one > > > > >> theme > > > > >> with Basic as theme and Sunrise as a "skin" (implementation of > > > > Basic). > > > > >> Hence the location of the css for Sunrise under > > > bootstrap/css/skins. > > > > >> Other > > > > >> than that, Sunrise uses the same template libraries as Basic. > It > > > is > > > > a > > > > >> false > > > > >> choice. > > > > >> 2. If we want to elevate Sunrise to theme status (i.e not > just > > a > > > > >> skin), > > > > >> then we have to create separate template libraries for it. To > > > > qualify > > > > >> as a > > > > >> theme, it should have its own distinct widget implementation > > > > including > > > > >> headers, menus, forms, tables, pagination etc. > > > > >> 3. The commits by Julien - r1683430 (header.ftl & appbar.ftl) > > > > affects > > > > >> both Basic and Sunrise. I have not seen patches for these and > > > could > > > > >> therefore not do reviews. > > > > >> 4. The approach with the Basic theme is to keep it as basic as > > > > >> possible, > > > > >> minimizing personal preferences with regards to look-and-feel > > and > > > > >> leaving > > > > >> this level of styling up to individual designers. > > > > >> > > > > >> I have committed patches to deal with most if not all the issues > > > flagged > > > > >> by > > > > >> Adrian on 19 May 2015. New issues have cropped up as a result of > > > > >> r1683430. To get this merge-ready my recommendation is that we > > revert > > > > >> r1683430 which deals with header.ftl & appbar.ft. These are minor > > > > issues > > > > >> which relate mainly to personal preferences. If the changes > > introduced > > > > >> with > > > > >> r1683430 is absolutely necessary, then I recommend that separate > > > > >> header.ftl > > > > >> & appbar.ftl files are created and that themeResources in > "Sunrise" > > > > point > > > > >> to locations where the new files reside. > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > I did not review anything but from your explanation having > > > > > separated/specific header.ftl & appbar.ftl files in "Sunrise" makes > > > sense > > > > > to me (since it's a "skin") > > > > > BTW I understand that <<Sunrise is a "skin">> because it's mostly a > > > copy > > > > > of basic, right? > > > > > > > > > > Jacques > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Regards > > > > >> > > > > >> Gavin > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 12:21 AM, Pierre Smits < > > > pierre.sm...@gmail.com> > > > > >> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> I am running the Bootstrap Basic (somewhat modified) against > trunk. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Best regards, > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Pierre Smits > > > > >>> > > > > >>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>* > > > > >>> Services & Solutions for Cloud- > > > > >>> Based Manufacturing, Professional > > > > >>> Services and Retail & Trade > > > > >>> http://www.orrtiz.com > > > > >>> > > > > >>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 9:56 PM, Adrian Crum < > > > > >>> adrian.c...@sandglass-software.com> wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > >>> I evaluated the bootstrap branch as it currently exists. If > there > > > are > > > > >>>> patches waiting to be applied to the branch, then I am not aware > > of > > > > >>>> them. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Adrian Crum > > > > >>>> Sandglass Software > > > > >>>> www.sandglass-software.com > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> On 6/23/2015 12:43 PM, Pierre Smits wrote: > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Hi Adrian, > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Thanks for the feedback. That the existing patch files > available > > in > > > > >>>>> JIRA > > > > >>>>> issues don't work in trunk has to do with the fact that the > > > bootstrap > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>> dev > > > > >>> > > > > >>>> branch is not in sync with trunk. We have to take in > consideration > > > > that > > > > >>>>> the > > > > >>>>> framework stack of the bootstrap branch is based (for the > greater > > > > part) > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>> on > > > > >>> > > > > >>>> r1634810. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> On top of that, the Bootstrap Basic and the other one were > > > > >>>>> co-developed. > > > > >>>>> And shortly before the disentanglement of the two themes > changes > > in > > > > the > > > > >>>>> templates were implemented for the other theme that affected > the > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>> Bootstrap > > > > >>> > > > > >>>> Basic theme negatively. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Nonetheless, I am ok with whatever which way the community > > chooses > > > to > > > > >>>>> go > > > > >>>>> with these bootstrap themes and the ones in trunk. It remains a > > > > >>>>> personal > > > > >>>>> preference what one likes best. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Best regards, > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Pierre Smits > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>* > > > > >>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud- > > > > >>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional > > > > >>>>> Services and Retail & Trade > > > > >>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 5:20 PM, Adrian Crum < > > > > >>>>> adrian.c...@sandglass-software.com> wrote: > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> I don't think the new themes are ready. I updated my local > copy > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>> yesterday > > > > >>> > > > > >>>> and tried them out - many of the layout issues I reported still > > > exist, > > > > >>>>>> plus > > > > >>>>>> I found another one. > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> I don't mind if there are just a few minor quirks - those can > be > > > > fixed > > > > >>>>>> after the themes are in the trunk, but right now there are too > > > many. > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Also, we need to discuss how many themes we want to include in > > the > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>> trunk. > > > > >>> > > > > >>>> The Bootstrap Basic theme doesn't seem to get as much attention > as > > > the > > > > >>>>>> other one, and it shows - its layout is much worse. I suggest > we > > > > port > > > > >>>>>> over > > > > >>>>>> one of the themes instead of two. > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Also, it would be nice to drop one or two existing themes. > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Adrian Crum > > > > >>>>>> Sandglass Software > > > > >>>>>> www.sandglass-software.com > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> On 6/23/2015 2:08 AM, Pierre Smits wrote: > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Hi all, > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> Recently we have seen that great strides have been made with > > > > respect > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> to > > > > >>> > > > > >>>> widget refactoring, theme functions disentanglement from > > framework ( > > > > >>>>>>> OFBIZ-6362 <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6362 > >) > > > and > > > > >>>>>>> in > > > > >>>>>>> the > > > > >>>>>>> Bootstrap dev branch (OFBIZ-5840 > > > > >>>>>>> <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-5840>). > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> Based on this all I am inclined to believe that both the > > > Bootstrap > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Basic > > > > >>> > > > > >>>> and the Bootstrap Sunrise themes are trunk ready. > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> What do you think? > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> Best regards, > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> Pierre Smits > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>* > > > > >>>>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud- > > > > >>>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional > > > > >>>>>>> Services and Retail & Trade > > > > >>>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > > > > >
