On 12/8/12 8:36 AM, janI wrote: > On 8 December 2012 00:34, Rob Weir <robw...@apache.org> wrote: > >> On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 5:40 PM, Andrea Pescetti <pesce...@apache.org> >> wrote: >>> On 04/12/2012 Rob Weir wrote: >>>> >>>> We should introduce a disconnect here, to avoid 1 million >>>> uses in Poland ignoring your easily ignored caveat and overwhelming >>>> the people.apache.org server. >> > If I may say so, the disconnect is already in place for the danish > translation....and I am sure none of us like it. The danish forum has one > simple solution, download LO. What is better that the people server get > swammed (which might lead to a change in policy) or users give up ! > >>> >>> >>> This specific issue has now been solved by invoking policy (so, we will >> be >>> able to put builds on people.apache.org but we won't link to them from >> the >>> main website), but the problem is not here. The problem is that we have >> had >>> a Polish translation ready for months and that we haven't released it yet >>> (even though recent improvements are really huge and will allow to avoid >>> long waits in future). >> > +1, 2 of the 3 danish volunteers (not including me) have more or less > stopped working due to demotivation...we have not even been able to provide > them with a running version to test their work until very recently.
communication is key here and people can ask again and again if nothing happened in time. We have so many things to do that it is often not easy to make it right for everybody. I would like to see everything more automated but even that needs time and people who work on it. Andrew and Herbert improved the build bots a lot (ok MacOS bot is still missing) and you can easy find the result under http://ci.apache.org/projects/openoffice/ The windows configuration is very close to our release configuration (no binfilter) and should be perfect for testing of translations. For the Danish translation for example I have updated Pootle and trunk immediately after receiving the files. Everybody would have been able to build it on trunk. Ok some strings are moved now and the translation needs some tweaks as all other translations as well. I am also sometimes demotivated because things didn't worked as expected but I don't stop trying to make it better. Juergen > >>> >> >> So why haven't we released the Polish translation? I agree that is a >> problem, but not one that requires policy to change to solve. >> >> Maybe releases under incubation were a pain the ass. But the are >> relatively easy now. We should try it sometime... >> >>> In general, and coming back to the main thread topic, if we have >> millions of >>> people who look for a certain language, we can find volunteers for that >>> language, and your brilliant idea to put notices on the native-language >>> websites proves it. So the problem is how to use our volunteers >> effectively >>> and motivate them. Ideally, I would like that it doesn't take more than >> two >>> months between the moment someone volunteers to complete a language and >> the >>> official availability of a build including his work. >>> >> >> Ergo, release more often. This does not require any policy changes. >> It just requires that we release more often. >> > or at least just release of the language pack, which should be a lot easier > to vote on (if needed). > >> >>> If we try to motivate volunteers and to understand where the obstacles >> are, >>> we can probably make the "all languages" build virtually useless, since >> all >>> relevant languages will have been covered. I've just started a >> discussion on >>> ooo-l10n to check the status of the 19 extra translations for which >> someone >>> volunteered so far. I hope that this will also help in finding if the >>> current policy can be improved: after all, OpenOffice has (probably) more >>> committers than any other Apache project, it accounts for 40% of all >> Apache >>> web traffic (downloads excluded!) and if we identify clear problems with >> the >>> policy we can definitely initiate changes to it. >>> >> >> We just need to do some very simple things: >> >> 1) When a translation is ready we need to test it. >> > This should be, check pootle server review status, and have one volunteer > send an e-mail, that the translation is ok. > >> >> 2) When it is tested, we need to create 1) a source bundle containing >> the changed source files, and a 2) a set of binary packages containing >> the new installs. >> >> 3) We have a 72 hour vote on the incremental source package >> >> 4) If the vote passes then we put the new binaries on SourceForge, put >> the new source bundle on the Apache mirrors, update the website and >> send out an announcement. >> > +1 to you procedure. > >> >> This is not hard. Maybe some one-time upfront work to create >> incremental language source bundles on demand. It is certainly >> simpler than trying to get a policy change. >> >> Maybe it would help if someone volunteered to be Release Manager for >> language releases between our numbered functional releases? Then one >> person can focus on the major builds, while another person focuses on >> getting out these incremental translations. >> > If I can get help to get started, I would like to volunteer for that part. > >> >> I think we can go a lot faster on new languages, but IMHO there is no >> policy holding us back. It is just work. >> >> -Rob >> >>> Regards, >>> Andrea. >> >
